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New Snowden leaks unravel mystery behind NSA's UK base

engadget.com

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Re: New Snowden leaks unravel mystery behind NSA's UK base

#11

Post by tjpd »

anexprogrammer wrote: post #3

EDIT: The source article is a much better, longer, read and does actually indicate new information - suggest the link is updated: https://theintercept.com/2016/09/06/nsa-menwith-hill-targete... Not sure how much mystery there was - Duncan Campbell revealed most of this (the Engadget summary anyway) in the 80s.

One of the interesting things from the slide shown in the article is that they're extracting the azimuth and elevation of roof based satellite dishes from aerial imagery presumably to cross correlate with the satellite orbits and whatever comms they're eavesdropping on.

Re: New Snowden leaks unravel mystery behind NSA's UK base

#12

Post by throwanem »

lkmlkmsfd wrote: post #8
dogma1138 wrote: post #2

FORNSAT could potentially be iffy, but OVERHEAD and GHOSTHUNTER is exactly the kind of programmes that the NSA and any other national SIGINT agency is supposed to run. Geographically confined and directed at specific adversaries to achieve clear military goals.

You're starting with the assumption that NSA is a good idea in the first place. It's not.

'Gentlemen do not read each other's mail'?

Re: New Snowden leaks unravel mystery behind NSA's UK base

#13

Post by trendia »

jomamaxx wrote: post #10
trendia wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you say those are the programs that they're "supposed to run", I ask, who gave them that mandate? Specifically ... Who gets to determine which programs the NSA is allowed to run? And who gets to determine what civilian data they are permitted to retain? And who gets to determine the "acceptable" number of civilian casualties when they bomb in Yemen?

"When you say those are the programs that they're "supposed to run", I ask, who gave them that mandate?" Congress, elected by the people. Most Americans are supportive of the USA's actions as it relates to spying on Putin etc. As far as snooping on Americans, it depends on the type. If Snowden is a 'whistleblower' - he should be talking about things that are clearly out of bounds. When he talks about normal espionage…

The majority of Americans do NOT support broad NSA spying activities. [1]

More than three-quarters of likely voters the poll interviewed opposed related aspects of current surveillance authorities and operations. Eighty-two percent are “concerned” about government collection and retention of their personal data. Eighty-three percent are concerned about government access to data stored by businesses without judicial orders, and 84% want the same judicial protections on their virtual data as exist for physical records on their property. The same percentage is concerned about government use of that data for non-counter-terrorism purposes.

[1] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/may/18/us-voters-br...

Re: New Snowden leaks unravel mystery behind NSA's UK base

#14

Post by dboreham »

anexprogrammer wrote: post #3

EDIT: The source article is a much better, longer, read and does actually indicate new information - suggest the link is updated: https://theintercept.com/2016/09/06/nsa-menwith-hill-targete... Not sure how much mystery there was - Duncan Campbell revealed most of this (the Engadget summary anyway) in the 80s.

20-odd years ago I lived a few miles from Menwith and drove past it on the way to work. A few years before that I had worked on hardware for massively parallel systems, much of which ended up in black projects. As I drove by, I would muse as to how much of my gear was whirring away in that place..

fwiw everyone in the local tech industry knew the real mission for the base in 1993 so I'm also not sure how much of the article is "new news".

In those days I would frequent a village pub close to the base that run a quiz one night every week. The pub had a public bar and a smaller back dining room / saloon bar. I quickly learned that only certain people were allowed to frequent the back room on quiz night (I never saw them); that they were very very good at quizzes; and by custom the pub banned any questions specific to the USA in the quiz.

Re: New Snowden leaks unravel mystery behind NSA's UK base

#15

Post by sbierwagen »

tjpd wrote: post #11
anexprogrammer wrote: post #3

EDIT: The source article is a much better, longer, read and does actually indicate new information - suggest the link is updated: https://theintercept.com/2016/09/06/nsa-menwith-hill-targete... Not sure how much mystery there was - Duncan Campbell revealed most of this (the Engadget summary anyway) in the 80s.

One of the interesting things from the slide shown in the article is that they're extracting the azimuth and elevation of roof based satellite dishes from aerial imagery presumably to cross correlate with the satellite orbits and whatever comms they're eavesdropping on.

Which is, of course, the reason the dishes at Menwith are in radomes in the first place. (So other intelligence agencies can't tell which satellites the NSA is snooping on) Kinda funny the article didn't bring it up.

Re: New Snowden leaks unravel mystery behind NSA's UK base

#16

Post by jomamaxx »

trendia wrote: post #13
jomamaxx wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"When you say those are the programs that they're "supposed to run", I ask, who gave them that mandate?" Congress, elected by the people. Most Americans are supportive of the USA's actions as it relates to spying on Putin etc. As far as snooping on Americans, it depends on the type. If Snowden is a 'whistleblower' - he should be talking about things that are clearly out of bounds. When he talks about normal espionage…

The majority of Americans do NOT support broad NSA spying activities. [1] More than three-quarters of likely voters the poll interviewed opposed related aspects of current surveillance authorities and operations. Eighty-two percent are “concerned” about government collection and retention of their personal data. Eighty-three percent are concerned about government access to data stored by businesses without judicial o…

This is a misrepresentation of the facts.

I clearly indicated that most Americans are fine with spying it's more classical forms, i.e. directed at Putin and terrorists, and of course are weary of domestic kinds of surveillance.

Your tactic is similar to those trying to confuse 'immigration' and 'illegal immigration' - and those trying to conflate Snowden revelations related to 'domestic surveillance' to those that having nothing to do with domestic surveillance at all - which potentially constitute an actual crime.

To wit, why don't you consider what they response would be to the question: "Do you support NSA spying on Putin and known terrorists" - and consider what the answer would be?

Re: New Snowden leaks unravel mystery behind NSA's UK base

#17

Post by ethanbond »

helthanatos wrote: post #6
dogma1138 wrote: post #2

FORNSAT could potentially be iffy, but OVERHEAD and GHOSTHUNTER is exactly the kind of programmes that the NSA and any other national SIGINT agency is supposed to run. Geographically confined and directed at specific adversaries to achieve clear military goals.

Governments are not supposed to do as much as they want to do. Governments should be smaller and protect their country. The reputation the US has as the "police of the world" is a negative one because getting into other nation's affairs is ridiculous. If it isn't an imminent threat, it shouldn't be worried about as much. The reason the US should stay in areas such as the middle east right now is because they are the…

Governments are just supposed to act as if there aren't other countries in the world? Something tells me this principle wouldn't result in the peaceful, logical decisions you're hoping for.

Re: New Snowden leaks unravel mystery behind NSA's UK base

#18

Post by toomuchtodo »

sbierwagen wrote: post #15
tjpd wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the interesting things from the slide shown in the article is that they're extracting the azimuth and elevation of roof based satellite dishes from aerial imagery presumably to cross correlate with the satellite orbits and whatever comms they're eavesdropping on.

Which is, of course, the reason the dishes at Menwith are in radomes in the first place. (So other intelligence agencies can't tell which satellites the NSA is snooping on) Kinda funny the article didn't bring it up.

Can't you bounce radar off the radome at a distance to reverse engineer the interior reflector's positioning?

Re: New Snowden leaks unravel mystery behind NSA's UK base

#19

Post by anexprogrammer »

dboreham wrote: post #14
anexprogrammer wrote: post #3

EDIT: The source article is a much better, longer, read and does actually indicate new information - suggest the link is updated: https://theintercept.com/2016/09/06/nsa-menwith-hill-targete... Not sure how much mystery there was - Duncan Campbell revealed most of this (the Engadget summary anyway) in the 80s.

20-odd years ago I lived a few miles from Menwith and drove past it on the way to work. A few years before that I had worked on hardware for massively parallel systems, much of which ended up in black projects. As I drove by, I would muse as to how much of my gear was whirring away in that place.. fwiw everyone in the local tech industry knew the real mission for the base in 1993 so I'm also not sure how much of the…

A pub that was probably really easy to spot as a haunt of Menwith Hill by having a car park full of US cars.

Used to surprise me driving past at how many big US cars you'd see driving on and off base. I'd wonder how it was worth shipping them across the pond instead of using something local for duration of their posting.

Re: New Snowden leaks unravel mystery behind NSA's UK base

#20

Post by lkmlkmsfd »

throwanem wrote: post #12
lkmlkmsfd wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're starting with the assumption that NSA is a good idea in the first place. It's not.

'Gentlemen do not read each other's mail'?

Pretty much, also taking into account that none of these agencies have a net benefit for humanity.
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