Snow Crash Revisited: Grokking a Satire of Mimesis • Hacker News Board

Re: Snow Crash Revisited: Grokking a Satire of Mimesis

#21

Post by qwertyuiop924 » Wed, Sep 07, 2016, 1:15 AM UTC

steverb wrote: post #14

qwertyuiop924 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heh, yeah. Tron 2 was disapointing to day the least. Stephenson's novels in general are like this, although Cryptonomicon for one certainly has better character development than Snow Crash: they're a disorderly jumble of whatever ideas Stephenson thought were interesting at the time, wrapped in a skin of plot, and enfleshed in the characters that surround, encounter, and explore them. Stephenson sometimes jumps the r…

I think that's a really good synopsis of Stephenson's style, which is in part why I like his writing. There's always these little gems of actual knowledge buried in there. I find them delightful. I'm not super fond of the way he ends things, but the journey along the way always has fun side trails to explore. If you're mad, then sign me up for your newsletter.

Thanks :-).

Yeah, his novels don't end, they just kind of stop. It's the same problem Porco Rosso and several They Might Be Giants songs have. This was particularly noticable in Cryptonomicon: It felt like it was building up to a climactic ending that didn't happen (which isn't to say the ending wasn't climactic, it just wasn't climactic enough to feel like a payoff to that buildup).

The closest thing I've got to a newsletter, or blog, or whatever, is the inane, insane, smart, stupid, and ridiculous comments that I post into the mass of such comments that is HN. So you may see me around.

Re: Snow Crash Revisited: Grokking a Satire of Mimesis

#22

Post by waterphone » Wed, Sep 07, 2016, 1:18 AM UTC

steverb wrote: post #14

qwertyuiop924 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heh, yeah. Tron 2 was disapointing to day the least. Stephenson's novels in general are like this, although Cryptonomicon for one certainly has better character development than Snow Crash: they're a disorderly jumble of whatever ideas Stephenson thought were interesting at the time, wrapped in a skin of plot, and enfleshed in the characters that surround, encounter, and explore them. Stephenson sometimes jumps the r…

I think that's a really good synopsis of Stephenson's style, which is in part why I like his writing. There's always these little gems of actual knowledge buried in there. I find them delightful. I'm not super fond of the way he ends things, but the journey along the way always has fun side trails to explore. If you're mad, then sign me up for your newsletter.

I've always enjoyed his endings myself, and didn't even really notice anything unusual about them until I saw other people ragging on them, which made me notice what they were complaining about more but didn't really change my opinion.

Re: Snow Crash Revisited: Grokking a Satire of Mimesis

#23

Post by qwertyuiop924 » Wed, Sep 07, 2016, 1:18 AM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #13

qwertyuiop924 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heh, yeah. Tron 2 was disapointing to day the least. Stephenson's novels in general are like this, although Cryptonomicon for one certainly has better character development than Snow Crash: they're a disorderly jumble of whatever ideas Stephenson thought were interesting at the time, wrapped in a skin of plot, and enfleshed in the characters that surround, encounter, and explore them. Stephenson sometimes jumps the r…

But you should definitely listen to Reason.

The one disadvatage of textual communication is that the person on the other end is incapable of listening to Reason. It's why the internet is so devoid of Reason.

Re: Snow Crash Revisited: Grokking a Satire of Mimesis

#24

Post by AJ007 » Wed, Sep 07, 2016, 1:21 AM UTC

n00b101 wrote: post #3

I read Snow Crash when I was 13. Then I lost countless hours trying to "live the dream" with Active Worlds [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_Worlds

Similar story for me. I think I didn't read it until I was 14 and by that point I had experienced quite a few of the "virtual worlds" including Active Worlds, the good old text BBS games, and research-grade virtual reality caves. Despite all of those experiences the book had a profound effect on my expectations of the future.

To me I saw multi-player FPSs as virtual worlds. Second Life was intriguing when it came along but I couldn't figure out how it deserved the title of Metaverse any more than Ultima Online, or others, did.

The author is right about shared virtual reality. When I dropped the DK1 over my eyes for the first time, something clicked that hadn't happened to me since 1996. The true sensory deprivation of the outside world will make virtual reality meaningful. You will know the other person is there and paying attention, at least until Facebook begins streaming live animated alert notifications.

Re: Snow Crash Revisited: Grokking a Satire of Mimesis

#25

Post by qwertyuiop924 » Wed, Sep 07, 2016, 1:25 AM UTC

throwanem wrote: post #18

gbhn wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are right, and I've at times struggled to explain why I enjoy his books as much as I do. I think ultimately he leans regularly on a facet of SF that in that genre, ideas and abstractions can be the equal subjects of character development. Cleverly developing an idea (e.g. mind virii) and circling back on those ideas, exploring how different facets connect in different ways, is the kind of thing one does w…

Just a heads up - if you're looking for a concise way to convey this idea in future, the phrase 'high concept' captures it neatly.

Well, that's always nice to know. Although I don't know how many people know what it means, and I don't think it encompasses all of what makes Stephenson Stephenson, anymore than "satirical fantasy" comes close to encompassing Pratchett's Discworld's writing style.

Re: Snow Crash Revisited: Grokking a Satire of Mimesis

#26

Post by qwertyuiop924 » Wed, Sep 07, 2016, 1:26 AM UTC

waterphone wrote: post #22

steverb wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's a really good synopsis of Stephenson's style, which is in part why I like his writing. There's always these little gems of actual knowledge buried in there. I find them delightful. I'm not super fond of the way he ends things, but the journey along the way always has fun side trails to explore. If you're mad, then sign me up for your newsletter.

I've always enjoyed his endings myself, and didn't even really notice anything unusual about them until I saw other people ragging on them, which made me notice what they were complaining about more but didn't really change my opinion.

It's a matter of opinion. Whether you'll complain about it can be gauged by how much you liked Pirate Radio, and your reaction to the end of Porco Rosso.

Re: Snow Crash Revisited: Grokking a Satire of Mimesis

#27

Post by qwertyuiop924 » Wed, Sep 07, 2016, 1:27 AM UTC

edraferi wrote: post #20

milcron wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tron 2 was more of an extended Daft Punk music video than an actual movie.

And I love it dearly for that!

But the first Tron was a better music video. Maybe not for Daft Punk. Maybe TMBG? Or Radiohead? REM, perhaps?

Re: Snow Crash Revisited: Grokking a Satire of Mimesis

#28

Post by throwanem » Wed, Sep 07, 2016, 1:37 AM UTC

qwertyuiop924 wrote: post #25

throwanem wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a heads up - if you're looking for a concise way to convey this idea in future, the phrase 'high concept' captures it neatly.

Well, that's always nice to know. Although I don't know how many people know what it means, and I don't think it encompasses all of what makes Stephenson Stephenson, anymore than "satirical fantasy" comes close to encompassing Pratchett's Discworld's writing style.

Certainly not! And I hope I haven't given insult. If so, it was entirely unintentional on my part, and I apologize for my carelessness in so doing. I'll put more thought into my words next time.

Don't get me wrong - I don't mean to say that all of Stephenson can be encompassed in those two words. Were that the case, he wouldn't have had to spend time writing books. I mean only that, if you're looking for a handy way to convey a primacy of idea over character in what an author chooses to explore, "high concept" is an adjectival phrase commonly understood to carry that meaning. Might save you some time, is all. (And, on the Internet of 2016, a dictionary is never far away...)

Re: Snow Crash Revisited: Grokking a Satire of Mimesis

#29

Post by ihuman » Wed, Sep 07, 2016, 1:42 AM UTC

Animats wrote: post #4

throwanem wrote: post #2

I can see that a lot of thought went into this review, but I have to admit I can't see what came out of it. Perhaps someone with a clearer understanding than I might lend a hand?

The book, or the review? The book outlines a world where franchisers run everything, including jails. It's a cookie-cutter world; instances of each franchise are very standardized, and this is a plot point. The hero delivers pizza for the Mafia run pizza franchise, when he's not hacking code. The heroine is a 15-year old skateboarding courier girl with a really good skateboard. There's a big virtual world, run partly…

>Would definitely have been better than Tron 2

At least we got a good Daft Punk album out of it

Re: Snow Crash Revisited: Grokking a Satire of Mimesis

#30

Post by ridgeguy » Wed, Sep 07, 2016, 2:05 AM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #13

qwertyuiop924 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heh, yeah. Tron 2 was disapointing to day the least. Stephenson's novels in general are like this, although Cryptonomicon for one certainly has better character development than Snow Crash: they're a disorderly jumble of whatever ideas Stephenson thought were interesting at the time, wrapped in a skin of plot, and enfleshed in the characters that surround, encounter, and explore them. Stephenson sometimes jumps the r…

But you should definitely listen to Reason.

Reason could have been my favorite character. Simple, straightforward, no ambiguity in its dialog.

Everybody listened to Reason.