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ITT Technical Institutes Shuts Down

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241–250 of 304 posts

Re: ITT Technical Institutes Shuts Down

#241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Judging from history, cheap colleges in the post-war decades worked just fine for the boomers.

There were fewer students, fewer colleges, and lower enrollment rates. A big reason why college costs have risen is due to the artificial demand created by subsidized loans.

Just as a gas will expand to fill its containing vessel, costs tend to grow to meet the available budget.

If 100% of the university operating budget for student instruction is guaranteed by the state, you might be surprised at how often the seats in the lecture halls need to be replaced. Rather than being reupholstered after 10 and 15 years, and replaced after 20, they are replaced every 5 years. The profitable business moves from instruction to instruction support services.

Maybe the dean is part owner of a company that specializes in lecture hall seat installation, or in a landscaping company so large it can only handle entire zoos, universities, and corporate office parks.

Money without a vigilant guardian eventually gets taken. This is why pouring more stupid government money into anything should be done with extreme caution, because it often invites corruption, in order to get a space at the trough.

College costs have risen because they could rise. The subsidized loans don't empower the students; they just enrich those with the power to capture the subsidy. The money would have been far better spent on building out new universities, or increasing the student instruction capacity of existing universities. That would have driven down student costs--rather than ensuring that any rising costs could always be paid by debt--and the stupid government money would have been flowing to those younger academics who are now perpetually wandering in tenureless adjunctland.

Re: ITT Technical Institutes Shuts Down

#242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and the reason that there were easy student loans for worthless education is because of laxity in the accreditation system on which reliance is placed to assure that education is not worthless, and because of a historical lack of accountability for frauds on the part of certain (particularly for-profit, who have the strongest incentive for fraud) institutions. The recent issues at Corinthian and ITT (including t…

Who were they accredited by and for how long?

I believe the most common is ACICS. The fact that more attention was paid to it after Corinthian Colleges was how the process that led to this shutdown started in the first place.

Re: ITT Technical Institutes Shuts Down

#243
post #54

I went to a similar for-profit school in Minnesota who also similarly shut down last year. I still feel like they get a bad rap. Was it overpriced? Probably. Did I learn a ton and have small class sizes. Absolutely. The instructors had all previously worked in the industry, and knew their topics very well. On top of all that, after graduation their persistent pestering of "how many places did you apply to this week?"…

I believe that all schools should have partial liability for the defaults of their students. You make a good point that this heavy-handed regulation of schools by shutting them down can hurt a few people who may benefit from alternative schools. If all schools were partially liable for loan defaults (say 50%), they would pay far more attention into creating programs that have good job prospects and less on programs t…

I dont want my school hustling me down the likeliest path to become corporate cannon fodder at ABC Corp when I'm trying to build a startup. Not everyone goes to school to "get a job".

Re: ITT Technical Institutes Shuts Down

#244
post #54

I went to a similar for-profit school in Minnesota who also similarly shut down last year. I still feel like they get a bad rap. Was it overpriced? Probably. Did I learn a ton and have small class sizes. Absolutely. The instructors had all previously worked in the industry, and knew their topics very well. On top of all that, after graduation their persistent pestering of "how many places did you apply to this week?"…

I believe that all schools should have partial liability for the defaults of their students. You make a good point that this heavy-handed regulation of schools by shutting them down can hurt a few people who may benefit from alternative schools. If all schools were partially liable for loan defaults (say 50%), they would pay far more attention into creating programs that have good job prospects and less on programs t…

[deleted]

Re: ITT Technical Institutes Shuts Down

#245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is, why should tax payers subsidize liberal art programs with no job prospects? Giving student loans in exchange for getting an education that will increase their earning power makes sense. Not only will the loan be paid back, but the increased earning power will also increase the tax base. But someone graduating with $200k in student loans with a degree that will barely qualify them for a $35k per year…

Taxpayers do this already: it's called grade school and high school. The public has an interest in an educated populace. I'm not seeing any direct correlation between the cost of an education program and the earning power of graduates from the program, so in the absence of that evidence, I couldn't say with any confidence that tying subsidies to earning power will do much at all to bring program costs down. If I were…

I don't see it as subsidizing STEM at the expense of liberal arts. I see it as giving loans to people who are likely to use those loans to increase their earning power, and therefore have the ability to repay said loans. It doesn't have to be STEM specifically, there are well paying jobs outside of that as well.

What benefit does society get from having lots of graduates with $100 to $200k in student loans that they'll struggle to make payments on for the next 20 years? Education is perfectly fine, but if the goal is to encourage lots of people to study liberal arts for the sake of learning, then let's find a way to do that that doesn't cost $50k per year.

Re: ITT Technical Institutes Shuts Down

#246
post #110
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why'd you go? What'd you study? What was the experience like? (I have a single semester at UIC and no other college).

I graduated from ITT 11 years ago. Care if I chime in? * Why did I go? I was just out of high-school and I wanted to be a software engineer. I looked at the local university (Robert Morris in Pittsburgh, PA), but I didn't like their program. I was one of those kids who started tinkering with programming at 12 by making Pokemon fan sites :) 4 Years at a university studying a generic comp-sci degree didn't appeal to me…

Thanks for giving a thorough, positive (relatively!) account of your experience with ITT. I went to one a coding bootcamp myself (for-profit) and would say mostly the same things. The instruction leaved a lot to be desired and I left having learned fewer skills than were advertised, but it got me on the track I wanted to be on and I've been employed in the kind of work I wanted to be since.

Re: ITT Technical Institutes Shuts Down

#247
They should have spent the $18 million.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/inside-bill-clintons...

EDIT: Not sure what the downvotes are for. ITT gets shutdown, but Laureate does the same thing, but even more so and gets a pass. The only difference appears to be these kinds of payoffs to politicos.

Re: ITT Technical Institutes Shuts Down

#248

Federal student loans shouldn't be available to any non-accredited institution. If your credit hours won't transfer then it isn't a real College or University.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but most 300+-level classes won't transfer either. My mechanical engineering degree's MEEN 363: Feedback Control of Dynamic Systems won't transfer to other universities because NIH. (Or rather, NTH, I guess.)

Re: ITT Technical Institutes Shuts Down

#249
> Students now enrolled at the company's technical schools will be able to cancel any federal student debt they incurred for their education if they decide against transferring their credits elsewhere... Taxpayers will record a loss on those debt cancellations.

This seems very unfair to taxpayers, who are essentially forced creditors. If the college reneges on its contract with students, then the students should seek to reclaim their losses through a class action lawsuit against ITT. The government shouldn't be covering losses on what were, arguably, bad investments.

Re: ITT Technical Institutes Shuts Down

#250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went to a real university and I had two professors who I'm sure never lectured sober. It's a bit less forgiveable at a for-profit where there's (I assume?) no tenure, and those professors are fire-able.

I went to community college and did well enough to get into a real university( University of Florida). The biggest shock of my life was that in most cases my community college teachers were superior to the processors at Florida.

My experience is the same -- all but one of the best professors I had in university were from a community college.

I had a chemistry professor that refused to go easy on us because, "I might have to work with some of you one day." As teaching was his night job.

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