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ITT Technical Institutes Shuts Down

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Re: ITT Technical Institutes Shuts Down

#181

Post by jrs235 »

azemetre wrote: post #142
ams6110 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The students too. If they are spending their own money they will (at least be more likely to) care more about what they are spending it on.

How are students able to determine if the education they are paying for is valid or not? How are students that are in at-risk populations able to differentiate between valid accredited solutions and predatory schemes? It's very easy to take advantage of certain people. I'm glad the government is doing its job protecting people from unfair practices. If information asymmetry wasn't so exceedingly common maybe we would…

The government "freely" giving people money to spend on questionable goods and services doesn't help or protect the vulnerable people. The government "failed" first, the for-profits ripped people off, now the government is "saving" the vulnerable people that they allowed to get into the crappy situation by allowing them to accrue loads of debt to start with.

Re: ITT Technical Institutes Shuts Down

#182

Post by criddell »

logfromblammo wrote: post #121
criddell wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why didn't ITT seek accreditation so that credits were transferable? It seems like it would instantly increase the value of what they are selling.

The additional cost of meeting the accreditation requirements, and the accreditation fees and dues, would exceed the portion that could be monetized out of the additional value imbued to the product by virtue of earning the accreditation.

That's a bold claim to make the day they shut down. :)

Re: ITT Technical Institutes Shuts Down

#183

Post by zomg »

people are so quick to make this a "for-profit" college issue, when it's not.

they shut down because the u.s. department of education banned them from enrolling new students who use federal financial aid.

what do you think would happen to "not for-profit" colleges if the u.s. department of education did the same to them? i'd argue it's the "not for-profit" schools who are driving tuition prices up because the government won't stop loaning money to anyone with a pulse.

dry up that loan money and watch prices fall from the sky.

Re: ITT Technical Institutes Shuts Down

#184

Post by ianai »

peterhadlaw wrote: post #137
larrywright wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure he's referring to Illinois Institute of Technology ( http://web.iit.edu ), and the fact that the name confusion doesn't act in his favor. I didn't attend, but I've been on the campus and it seems like a pretty great school.

You are correct, I'm referring to Illinois Institute of Technology! :)

I can empathize a bit. I went to the New Mexico Institute of Mining and Technology. It's an excellent school - on par with MIT in its eyes. The name recognition's not there where I live right now, though. It's not helped me find work.

Re: ITT Technical Institutes Shuts Down

#185

Post by blakeyrat »

swalsh wrote: post #111
SteveNuts wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sanford Brown (or just Brown)? Same here... I loved it and it got me a great job. Is it prestigious? Nope. But it got the job done and I was done in 2 years.

I went there for 2 semesters. I cancelled after one of the "professors" showed up hung over. The education was very low quality.

I went to a real university and I had two professors who I'm sure never lectured sober.

It's a bit less forgiveable at a for-profit where there's (I assume?) no tenure, and those professors are fire-able.

Re: ITT Technical Institutes Shuts Down

#186

Post by sytelus »

There is a startup opportunity here. It actually shouldn't take a lot of resources for this kind of technical education. Get a community hall, few experienced volunteers and have them teach skills for free to anyone who is interested. Students just promise to pay portion of their income if and when they get job. A startup gets little cut for coordinating whole thing.

Re: ITT Technical Institutes Shuts Down

#187

Post by Nelson69 »

Yhippa wrote: post #45
aaronchall wrote: post #35

The dream: take students who are mostly unprepared to succeed at college and educate & prepare them for success in the real world. The reality: most of these students will not realize a return on the investment of their time and acquisition of a ton of debt that they cannot discharge in bankruptcy. Many will fail to attend class, fail to take notes, fail to do homework, fail to learn, and will not complete - but beca…

What's the case against community colleges historically? I graduated from university a while ago and still take a community college course from anything from math to photography when I have the time. I have been largely impressed by what they have to offer.

I don't know that there is a "case" against them. My guess is that there are a bunch of mis-assumptions against them by proxy. I'm guessing but I think a chunk of people might think or suggest that the college prep education they pay their tax dollars for up with 12th grade is doing an inadequate job if community college or junior college is needed.

That and then there is a general "anti-university" sort of vibe in the world. "They waste a lot of time and money teaching you stuff that you don't need" or "it's just a piece of paper" where as maybe a vocational school might be a more "efficient" option for getting a job. I'm not expert but I believe a lot of community colleges try to offer college prep courses and try to help ease the transition, rather than just focus on vocational skills that can immediately be applied to a job.

Re: ITT Technical Institutes Shuts Down

#188

Post by droopybuns »

aaronchall wrote: post #35

The dream: take students who are mostly unprepared to succeed at college and educate & prepare them for success in the real world. The reality: most of these students will not realize a return on the investment of their time and acquisition of a ton of debt that they cannot discharge in bankruptcy. Many will fail to attend class, fail to take notes, fail to do homework, fail to learn, and will not complete - but beca…

It feels like non "for-profit" schools also suffer from the same reality, now that the prices are commonly hovering around 40K per year at smaller liberal arts schools.

Re: ITT Technical Institutes Shuts Down

#189

Post by ianai »

jacquesm wrote: post #7
tickthokk wrote: post #4

As a 2005 graduate of ITT, I'm glad. This was a long time coming. Now if only I could get my loans refunded :p

From TFA: "Other former students are pushing to have their debts canceled by alleging that the company defrauded them into taking out the debt by advertising false job-placement rates." So it looks like you might have a chance.

That seems like something you couldn't sue over and win. At this point the beef exists between student and financer.

Re: ITT Technical Institutes Shuts Down

#190

Post by VLM »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #16

Next, go after the public colleges? Other than brand, do they do a better job? Spend more than 30% of income on actual educational expenses (like IIT does)? I doubt it. {edit} Seems like US Universities are about 1:1 faculty vs staff. Up from 2:1 40 years ago.

I'm not sure the money is there to chase. I got an associates from a "public county tech", basically a public non-profit variant of the general ITT model, and it was about 1/10th ITT price, even today. The associates degree was worthless in the market by itself, but 56 of the 64 credit did transfer because they worked very hard with the state uni system and one of the local private colleges and accreditation boards.

If you take the ITT story, make the teachers actually teach to the accredited standard such that credit transfers "work", and cut the price 90%, it's not that bad of a deal. With tuition at $3K or so per semester, its hard to accumulate $50K in ITT style loans at a "public county tech" when a semester of school takes about half a year of part time employment at minimum wage...

I would imagine there are places to live without "public county tech" schools, but without educational institutions and other than importing them from us, where do you get your welders and electrician apprentices and similar?

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