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ITT Technical Institutes Shuts Down

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Re: ITT Technical Institutes Shuts Down

#111

Post by swalsh »

SteveNuts wrote: post #75
donatj wrote: post #54

I went to a similar for-profit school in Minnesota who also similarly shut down last year. I still feel like they get a bad rap. Was it overpriced? Probably. Did I learn a ton and have small class sizes. Absolutely. The instructors had all previously worked in the industry, and knew their topics very well. On top of all that, after graduation their persistent pestering of "how many places did you apply to this week?"…

Sanford Brown (or just Brown)? Same here... I loved it and it got me a great job. Is it prestigious? Nope. But it got the job done and I was done in 2 years.

I went there for 2 semesters. I cancelled after one of the "professors" showed up hung over. The education was very low quality.

Re: ITT Technical Institutes Shuts Down

#112

Post by mhurron »

HarryHirsch wrote: post #88
clarkmoody wrote: post #66

It looks like the main problem in this whole scheme is the government-funded student loan program. ITT was wrangling to get access that that loan money as a key to its operations. Failing to comply with the Dept of Ed's requirements caused them to go out of business, since they would no longer have a place at the public trough. How many state schools and private colleges could survive without government largess? We'v…

How many state schools and private colleges could survive without government largess? The reason we have seen tuition rates go up at public schools is precisely because their share of taxpayer funding has been cut, they have to make up for the missing funds somehow. You'd wish they would rely less on tuition because then we could do without useless taught masters degrees and with less shiny amenities designed to comp…

> Neither the student body nor the taxpayer needs that kind of expense so the place can attract students from three counties away.

And if the county their from doesn't have a community college, or the community college in their county doesn't offer the programs they want?

Re: ITT Technical Institutes Shuts Down

#113

Post by eli »

bradleyjg wrote: post #109
donatj wrote: post #54

I went to a similar for-profit school in Minnesota who also similarly shut down last year. I still feel like they get a bad rap. Was it overpriced? Probably. Did I learn a ton and have small class sizes. Absolutely. The instructors had all previously worked in the industry, and knew their topics very well. On top of all that, after graduation their persistent pestering of "how many places did you apply to this week?"…

While there may well be more bad (by whatever metric) for-profit colleges there are also bad non-profit colleges. And non-profit itself is a bit of misnomer. It is true that registered non-profits can't pay dividends to their shareholders, but they can and sometimes do pay exorbitant salaries to those that have control over them. As the gainful employment rule[1] currently stands it exempts degree programs from publi…

Salaries at non-profit must be "reasonable" by law.

There's probably a lot of wiggle room there, but it's not like you can just pay yourself anything.

Re: ITT Technical Institutes Shuts Down

#114

Post by tom_b »

tptacek wrote: post #9
kayla210 wrote: post #5

I really feel for all the students who are so close to graduating and not knowing if they'll have anything to show for it.. And their credits will most likely not transfer to another school because of the different accreditations.

That their credits had virtually no chance of transferring to any other institution --- a point ITT was forced to make on its own website --- is a pretty good reason not to allow it to be the beneficiary of billions of dollars of public financing.

Credits rarely transfer into a major or minor program of study regardless of source institution. Waiving of requirements to opt into higher-level coursework is fine. That's rarely what students want.

ITT is just the worst example of crappy education. There are plenty of schools where a crappy education is still available. Federally backed (edit: guarenteed) money for student loans intuitively seems problematic.

Re: ITT Technical Institutes Shuts Down

#115

Post by dbg31415 »

What disgusts me most about the for-profit schools -- not to come off as too much of a snob -- is that the money we the taxpayers put into their pockets would be better spent improving community colleges and state schools.

I get not everyone needs to go to an Ivy League school, but for vocational basics -- what people are going to these for-profit schools hoping to gain -- community college should be "good enough."

I'd look at Bellevue Community College as a great example of a strong vocational tech school. That should be a model others could strive for. When I was younger I learned a great deal in BCC classes -- knowledge that was immediately beneficial to my day job as a software developer.

In contrast, the classes at BCC were far more hands-on training than what I got at the school I eventually graduated from. Educationally, community college I feel was better... but certainly for connections and networking the "name-brand" schools pay off.

Re: ITT Technical Institutes Shuts Down

#116

Post by aerhakr »

My wife had worked as a temporary at ITT here in Calfornia. It was the most degrading work I have ever seen. She was teaching English courses, and 98% of the kids plagiarized, not even trying to cover it up. When she gave failing grades to the papers, the students fought back and the director at her location told her she can't do that. She quit that week.

Re: ITT Technical Institutes Shuts Down

#117

Post by ocdtrekkie »

koolba wrote: post #10
kayla210 wrote: post #5

I really feel for all the students who are so close to graduating and not knowing if they'll have anything to show for it.. And their credits will most likely not transfer to another school because of the different accreditations.

> I really feel for all the students who are so close to graduating and not knowing if they'll have anything to show for it.. And their credits will most likely not transfer to another school because of the different accreditations. I'm pretty sure the ones that graduated have no chance of their credits transferring either. Only difference is they saved whatever the last couple tuition payments would have been.

You can put an ITT Tech degree on a resume. It will be regarded as less than a degree elsewhere, but it's something. But just non-transferrable course credit gets you nowhere. These students may be put back years on their career path.

Re: ITT Technical Institutes Shuts Down

#118

Post by JulianMorrison »

qaq wrote: post #93
slfnflctd wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better question: Why shouldn't they? These are almost all going to be, by definition, disadvantaged people who have been lied to and defrauded. Yes, they 'chose' to do this, but the staggering amount of misleading advertising (and the worst kinds of sleazy-salesman lies & emotional manipulation of the vulnerable) leaves plenty of doubt as to how much of a choice they had. I see very little difference between helping…

Because it's hard to draw the line, how do you disincentivize undesired behaviour if you pick up the tab for any stupid thing anyone does?

One, an excessive focus on trying to "disincentivize undesired behaviour" is pretty creepy and controlling.

Two, this is not a matter of poor life decisions, this is a matter of fraud.

Three, even if people are impoverished by stupidity, you're either gonna pick up the tab to some extent or literally watch them die of destitution on the street. It appals me sometimes how often America treats this like it was a choice.

Re: ITT Technical Institutes Shuts Down

#119

Post by jotato »

tickthokk wrote: post #100
Unbeliever69 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Check out the DOE website. You most likely will be able to get some student loan forgiveness.

Thanks, I took a look, and that's great information for any current student, or students with outstanding loans. However, I was mostly joking; I've actually already paid them off completely, years ago, which wouldn't have been possible without my lovely wife. So the word "refund" was used purposefully, and getting one is likely improbable, haha. For years it was always a struggle of bashing ITT with my colleagues/the…

I graduated in 2005 from ITT in Pittsburgh and the total cost was a hair under 28K. I got a few grants, but had less than 20K in debt when I graduated. Was the pricing really that different where you went?

Also, that was over 10 years ago. I haven't had any employer really care that I went to ITT. Honestly in the last 5 or 6 years no employer even asked where I went. Where I am now most care about real world experience; not where you graduated.

I don't know where I am going with this...

Re: ITT Technical Institutes Shuts Down

#120

Post by ocdtrekkie »

clarkmoody wrote: post #66

It looks like the main problem in this whole scheme is the government-funded student loan program. ITT was wrangling to get access that that loan money as a key to its operations. Failing to comply with the Dept of Ed's requirements caused them to go out of business, since they would no longer have a place at the public trough. How many state schools and private colleges could survive without government largess? We'v…

I absolutely think the government should forgive these students' loans. Arguably, it was the government's decision that rendered those loans useless. ITT Tech may have been a shoddy school, but it was still school.
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