Live data from Hacker News

ITT Technical Institutes Shuts Down

bloomberg.com

101–110 of 304 posts

Re: ITT Technical Institutes Shuts Down

#101
post #54

I went to a similar for-profit school in Minnesota who also similarly shut down last year. I still feel like they get a bad rap. Was it overpriced? Probably. Did I learn a ton and have small class sizes. Absolutely. The instructors had all previously worked in the industry, and knew their topics very well. On top of all that, after graduation their persistent pestering of "how many places did you apply to this week?"…

Sanford Brown (or just Brown)? Same here... I loved it and it got me a great job. Is it prestigious? Nope. But it got the job done and I was done in 2 years.

Yup. It was just "Brown" at the time. Brooklyn Center campus. I went for Application Development.

Re: ITT Technical Institutes Shuts Down

#102
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps apprenticeship programs as are common in Germany, which are more focused on practical skills development than theoretical learning?

They're actually quite a few apprenticeship programs here in the states. Learning a skilled trade just isn't sexy for a lot of kids and for some reason are looked down upon. Even though you can get a welding apprenticeship and be earning 70-80K right out of the gate. High schools here are starting to encourage kids to take a more non-traditional route to a career and letting kids know there are other avenues other th…

I'm not disagreeing with your encouragement towards the skilled trades, but please do be realistic with your information. Median salary is $40K.

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Welder/Hourly_Rate

Re: ITT Technical Institutes Shuts Down

#103

It looks like the main problem in this whole scheme is the government-funded student loan program. ITT was wrangling to get access that that loan money as a key to its operations. Failing to comply with the Dept of Ed's requirements caused them to go out of business, since they would no longer have a place at the public trough. How many state schools and private colleges could survive without government largess? We'v…

How many state schools and private colleges could survive without government largess? The reason we have seen tuition rates go up at public schools is precisely because their share of taxpayer funding has been cut, they have to make up for the missing funds somehow. You'd wish they would rely less on tuition because then we could do without useless taught masters degrees and with less shiny amenities designed to comp…

>The reason we have seen tuition rates go up at public schools is precisely because their share of taxpayer funding has been cut

I think it's a bit much to claim this as the sole or even main reason. Tuition has gone up because it can. People are willing to pay it because, who cares, it's just a loan. Not money out of pocket.

Look at the financials from University of Texas for FY 2014-2015: https://utexas.app.box.com/v/annual-financial-reports/1/8167...

Federally sponsored programs UP $20 million from previous year. Local programs up more than $2 million. These more than offset state-level funding being down $6 million, and that $6 million is a drop in the bucket of $1.6 BILLION in operating revenues. Over $200 million increase in net worth in that year alone, and over $1 BILLION in net increase the year before.

Schools are not hurting for money. Tuition students pay is less than half of the money they make. Tuition does not go up because it needs to, it goes up because they want it to and because it can.

UT could make tuition and fees literally $0 for everyone and they'd still be profitable over the past two years.

Re: ITT Technical Institutes Shuts Down

#104
I'll preface this with my lack of any love for ITT, but there's a piece of the story that bothers me: "Last month, the feds demanded the company produce an additional $153 million in collateral—nearly double its $78 million in cash on hand—to cover possible losses that the government might incur if the company were to suddenly fail."

Here's how that sounds to me: "Well, ITT technically hasn't done anything illegal. But we don't like them. How much cash do they have? Double that amount and tell them we need this much for 'collateral' or we shut them down."

Can anyone fill in the blanks that Bloomberg didn't? What basis does the government have to make such demands (as it appears to me) out of the blue? Why make such demands knowing going into it that it will become a self-fulfilling prophecy? (That last question is kind of rhetorical.)

Re: ITT Technical Institutes Shuts Down

#105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What's the case against community colleges historically? nothing, but they don't have slick advertising and promise you a $75k/year job, or aggressively recruit you by calling you non-stop and using manipulative pressure tactics like you're buying a $50,000 cell phone plan at a mall kiosk.

or aggressively recruit you by calling you non-stop and using manipulative pressure tactics Wow, you just reminded me of something funny that happened about 15 years ago. A younger friend of mine was interested in tech, and knew I was "good with computers". They had taken some online quiz, and said I should take it. So I took it, and filled out my info thinking I might win something (I was young, and didn't particula…

Never mind pushy. How do rude salespeople even exist?

I have never even liked the concept of a salesperson, as distinct from a vendor's point-of-sale clerk. I don't like to haggle; I check competitor prices, and use advertised sales or coupons.

Re: ITT Technical Institutes Shuts Down

#106
post #42

I am personaly happy to see the hammer come down on these for-profit universities. I too feel for the students as I was one of the Corinthian Colleges students a few years ago at Everest University through one of the Florida campuses. My degree program was the A.S. in Computer Information Sciences -- such a waste. Look up the job placement rates for that program in 2010, just insane. Thankfully I too have been able t…

Easy student loans for worthless education is what created the problem of sham for-profit universities to begin with.

Yes, I think this is the crux of all our education woes currently. I'd be curious to see how the system would evolve if the DOE eliminated the federal student aid program entirely.

Re: ITT Technical Institutes Shuts Down

#107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the burden on your (so-called) average taxpayer of having a stagnant, debt-crippled workforce is greater and worse to bear in the long term.

But let's not make those taxpayers foot the exploding costs of tuition caused by access to so much easy money.

This is a mostly incoherent comment; enough so that I can only read into it what your profile statement gives away about your inclinations.

Re: ITT Technical Institutes Shuts Down

#109
post #54

I went to a similar for-profit school in Minnesota who also similarly shut down last year. I still feel like they get a bad rap. Was it overpriced? Probably. Did I learn a ton and have small class sizes. Absolutely. The instructors had all previously worked in the industry, and knew their topics very well. On top of all that, after graduation their persistent pestering of "how many places did you apply to this week?"…

While there may well be more bad (by whatever metric) for-profit colleges there are also bad non-profit colleges. And non-profit itself is a bit of misnomer. It is true that registered non-profits can't pay dividends to their shareholders, but they can and sometimes do pay exorbitant salaries to those that have control over them.

As the gainful employment rule[1] currently stands it exempts degree programs from public and private non-profit institutions. I'd rather see a uniform set of metrics and standards applied to all institutions eligible for student loans.

[1] https://www.federalregister.gov/articles/2014/10/31/2014-255...

Re: ITT Technical Institutes Shuts Down

#110
post #13

As an alum of IIT (Chicago)... This is extra, great news.

Why'd you go? What'd you study? What was the experience like? (I have a single semester at UIC and no other college).

I graduated from ITT 11 years ago. Care if I chime in?

* Why did I go? I was just out of high-school and I wanted to be a software engineer. I looked at the local university (Robert Morris in Pittsburgh, PA), but I didn't like their program. I was one of those kids who started tinkering with programming at 12 by making Pokemon fan sites :)

4 Years at a university studying a generic comp-sci degree didn't appeal to me. ITT offered a degree in Software Applications and Programming. It was what I was looking for.

* What did I study? As mentioned, Software Applications and Programming. Aside from the core classes (English, Calc, Trig, etc...) there were 2 OS classes, 2 VB, 2 C++, 2 Java, 2 webdev and 1 data structures class. at 18, this is what I was looking for. A few classes to teach me the basics in those areas and let me chase down the rest.

* What was it like? I don't have a single word to describe it, and when people ask me in person I find that I can take a good 20 minutes describing it. I'll do my best to sum it up.

disclaimer: they kept 3 students on hand as lab assistants and I was one for most of my two years there. Basically, we helped out the professors as needed and offered to help tutor. It paid something like $8/hr. My opinion may be skewed because of that.

- It was 100% for profit, and you could tell. Professors wouldn't really be allowed to fail students. It always bothered me that someone who only came to class on the first and last days was able to "barely pass"

- "Testing out" was frowned upon. You could do it, but you needed permission from the Dean, and meet with the professor and "career services" before you took the test. I was told you had to pass with a 100% to test out - I can't really vouch for that since I never tried.

- "Career Services" was a bit of a joke. It was 3 ladies who would critic your resume and let you know if they had heard of any job opening. Don't get me wrong, they were really nice people who wanted to help. I just didn't get much value from them. Sometimes local companies would come to ITT to post job openings. CS would at least email those out to you if you wanted.

- The classes were basic - "topic for dummies" basic. I'm no genius, but I didn't have to take notes. I don't know if it was that I had already been learning for 7 years before ITT or what, but I didn't really learn many new things there. It was kind of two years of review. I may be wrong on this one; I just don't have any memories of struggling to learn something.

- The professors and staff were nice. They did want to see you succeed.

- Credit transfers. They were upfront most colleges wouldn't transfer credits, but rumor had it the local university would take a few. Mainly the cores (maths, english, etc..)

* Final thoughts? - Would I go again? No

- Would I tell other people to go? No

- Was it worth it? Yes. I did get a degree. It isn't prestigious and I don't care. I was able to have a job lined up (in my field) before graduation. Fast forward to today and I have moved to the other side of the country. I have a great family, a good consulting job, and the confidence I need to build any software you want.

How much of that was ITT, and how much was my own sweat and blood? I don't know. What I do know is I would not have been hired at the same place right out of college. Which means I wouldn't have made the connections I did which led to me moving across the country.

edit:

I see a few topics regarding loan forgiveness because of fraud. I experienced no such thing. Sure, the recruiters made a few statements that I consider un-true. But i wouldn't call it fraud. They did provide an education. (It may not have been the best) and they did try to place you in a job (they can't place everybody!)

Ultimately, it was on me for borrowing money; not the school

Post reply on HN