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ITT Technical Institutes Shuts Down

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Re: ITT Technical Institutes Shuts Down

#81

Post by Practicality »

dec0dedab0de wrote: post #70
beachstartup wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What's the case against community colleges historically? nothing, but they don't have slick advertising and promise you a $75k/year job, or aggressively recruit you by calling you non-stop and using manipulative pressure tactics like you're buying a $50,000 cell phone plan at a mall kiosk.

or aggressively recruit you by calling you non-stop and using manipulative pressure tactics Wow, you just reminded me of something funny that happened about 15 years ago. A younger friend of mine was interested in tech, and knew I was "good with computers". They had taken some online quiz, and said I should take it. So I took it, and filled out my info thinking I might win something (I was young, and didn't particula…

" I am very surprised anybody ever buys anything from pushy salespeople. "

Agreed. The irony is the majority of people do. Sadly, most people are irrational > 50% of the time. Sure. They are capable of being rational, but they don't exercise that capability.

Re: ITT Technical Institutes Shuts Down

#83

Post by logfromblammo »

Yhippa wrote: post #45
aaronchall wrote: post #35

The dream: take students who are mostly unprepared to succeed at college and educate & prepare them for success in the real world. The reality: most of these students will not realize a return on the investment of their time and acquisition of a ton of debt that they cannot discharge in bankruptcy. Many will fail to attend class, fail to take notes, fail to do homework, fail to learn, and will not complete - but beca…

What's the case against community colleges historically? I graduated from university a while ago and still take a community college course from anything from math to photography when I have the time. I have been largely impressed by what they have to offer.

Community colleges with regional accreditation and freely transferable credits are not a problem. They serve several niches that large universities may find inconvenient or unprofitable--such as the hobbyist courses you mentioned, continuing education requirements, and remedial courses for students with inadequate high school education, and compete with some larger universities for the non-traditional students.

Spending some years at community college before transferring to a larger university's degree program is a great way for poorer students to save tuition money, and for academically unprepared students to catch up to their age cohort in a reasonable way. The disadvantage lies in the social networking, which is a big part of the value of (4 years of) on-campus university education. At a community college, it is somewhat less advantageous to make contacts with other students and professors, because they are less prestigious overall. Someone with an associate's degree is not as likely to help you get a job (at least for several years after graduation).

Most for-profit schools lack several of the elements I consider to be absolutely essential to qualify as a "community college". Many of them appear to be so horribly parasitic and exploitative that I can't figure out how they manage to get so many students.

Re: ITT Technical Institutes Shuts Down

#84

Post by JulianMorrison »

qaq wrote: post #29
JulianMorrison wrote: post #11

Every student's loans to these slimy operators should be simply struck off with no penalty.

Why should avg. taxpayer take on this burden?

Fuck the word taxpayer, it's a lie hiding in a literalism. It pretends that people are paying for some service and they could stop. No. Society, as individuals on behalf of the whole, has responsibilities. One of those is to pick up the tab when people's lives have been ruined through no fault of their own.

The whole "small government" thing has just been people blowing off their responsibilities.

Re: ITT Technical Institutes Shuts Down

#85

Post by Vraxx »

clarkmoody wrote: post #66

It looks like the main problem in this whole scheme is the government-funded student loan program. ITT was wrangling to get access that that loan money as a key to its operations. Failing to comply with the Dept of Ed's requirements caused them to go out of business, since they would no longer have a place at the public trough. How many state schools and private colleges could survive without government largess? We'v…

While I agree that I see no reason to forgive these loans as opposed to any other education loans, I just wanted to point out that the taxpayers would not be suffering twice in this case because the only "suffering" that the taxpayers endure is if loans are not paid back. If they are, the taxpayers get their money back plus interest (still in the hands of the government, but it's not "lost").

Re: ITT Technical Institutes Shuts Down

#87

Post by jeffdavis »

arenaninja wrote: post #60
donatj wrote: post #54

I went to a similar for-profit school in Minnesota who also similarly shut down last year. I still feel like they get a bad rap. Was it overpriced? Probably. Did I learn a ton and have small class sizes. Absolutely. The instructors had all previously worked in the industry, and knew their topics very well. On top of all that, after graduation their persistent pestering of "how many places did you apply to this week?"…

I don't disagree that for-profit colleges get a bad rap, but I think it's deserved in the case of ITT Tech and Corinthian. I think about the government handing out student loans to students who statistically won't be able to repay, and I'm OK with the DOE putting a stop to it. Taxpayers will ultimately be on the hook for these failed loans, and if they know which institutions are largely at fault then good on them fo…

"handing out student loans to students who statistically won't be able to repay, and I'm OK with the DOE putting a stop to it"

Right, but ot depends on the facts.

Were they just asked to put up reasonable collateral, foreseeable from what they delivered compared with their responsibilities by taking federal money? Or were they blindsided with an arbitrary number from the DOE that was intended to force them to shut down before they had a chance to save their business?

Probably a little (or a lot) of both. And we should be as wary of the latter as the former.

Re: ITT Technical Institutes Shuts Down

#88

Post by HarryHirsch »

clarkmoody wrote: post #66

It looks like the main problem in this whole scheme is the government-funded student loan program. ITT was wrangling to get access that that loan money as a key to its operations. Failing to comply with the Dept of Ed's requirements caused them to go out of business, since they would no longer have a place at the public trough. How many state schools and private colleges could survive without government largess? We'v…

How many state schools and private colleges could survive without government largess?

The reason we have seen tuition rates go up at public schools is precisely because their share of taxpayer funding has been cut, they have to make up for the missing funds somehow. You'd wish they would rely less on tuition because then we could do without useless taught masters degrees and with less shiny amenities designed to compete for the tuition income.

Nowadays you see community colleges building dormitories! Neither the student body nor the taxpayer needs that kind of expense so the place can attract students from three counties away.

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