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How to Learn Advanced Mathematics Without Heading to University – Part 3

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Re: How to Learn Advanced Mathematics Without Heading to University – Part 3

#111

Post by [deleted] »

throwaway729 wrote: post #108
svanderbleek wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope it is not stupid. I won't fit inside the university system at this point. They would make me take courses on subjects I already know which is a waste. I have about 20 hours on the weekend I can use towards accomplishing a class and I will have minimal waste since my curriculum is tailored directly for me. Of course it is only because I already wasted a decade learning math poorly that I know what I want to kno…

> They would make me take courses on subjects I already know which is a waste Then find a lower-tier university. In any densely populated region there will be at least one that's happy to take your tuition money to let you enroll in a non-degree-earning course of study. You'll only have an issue if you want a degree which, BTW, is typically intended to be broader than a narrow course of study in a particular area of…

[deleted]

Re: How to Learn Advanced Mathematics Without Heading to University – Part 3

#112

Post by svanderbleek »

whorleater wrote: post #110
svanderbleek wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope it is not stupid. I won't fit inside the university system at this point. They would make me take courses on subjects I already know which is a waste. I have about 20 hours on the weekend I can use towards accomplishing a class and I will have minimal waste since my curriculum is tailored directly for me. Of course it is only because I already wasted a decade learning math poorly that I know what I want to kno…

Prerequisites for classes are oftentimes a suggestion, you can easily get into a class you don't meet the prerequisites for by simply signing up for the class (most class registration systems don't bar this), or by emailing the professor and getting an override. Furthermore, if you're a non-degree seeking student, the university cares very little about you, so you can skate by with a lot more freedom with classes.

Interesting. Certainly something to consider. I never thought about being a non-degree seeking student.

Re: How to Learn Advanced Mathematics Without Heading to University – Part 3

#113

Post by mungoid »

sixo wrote: post #77
mungoid wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really hope this doesn't come across as brash. I don't mean it to, but I must disagree with your assertions (In my case at least). Learning advanced mathematics without university is completely possible. Because it is at your own learning pace. Not one of a University. I graduated several years ago with a BS in Computer Science, with a Focus on Networking. And during that time, I held 3 part time jobs while also be…

I don't mean to be rude by saying this, but the truly-difficult advanced math - the stuff that's really hard to build an understanding of by yourself, because it's fairly distantly separated from any obvious applications or anything you'd readily have experience with, and heavily obfuscated (to newcomers) by the notation and pedantic proof-focused thoroughness (appropriate for academic math, less so for applications)…

Nah, not rude =-)

I consider the math I do at work to be somewhat advanced. Statics, dynamics, a touch of thermo dynamics, etc. But if you are talking like quantum mechanics or NASA JPL level math, then yeah I totally agree those topics would definitely be better learned in a proper environment.

Re: How to Learn Advanced Mathematics Without Heading to University – Part 3

#114

Post by gone35 »

tprice7 wrote: post #106
sixo wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't mean to be rude by saying this, but the truly-difficult advanced math - the stuff that's really hard to build an understanding of by yourself, because it's fairly distantly separated from any obvious applications or anything you'd readily have experience with, and heavily obfuscated (to newcomers) by the notation and pedantic proof-focused thoroughness (appropriate for academic math, less so for applications)…

If you don't consider the topics mungoid mentioned to be advanced math, perhaps you'll still consider this to be: http://arxiv.org/abs/1509.05797 It was accepted to Algebraic Geometry in May, (the Foundation Compositio Mathematica journal, not JAG), so it will probably appear online sometime around December. So far I've received three invitations to visit two different universities as a result of this paper. (search…

Impressive. Congratulations on your achievement!

Re: How to Learn Advanced Mathematics Without Heading to University – Part 3

#115

Post by Chris2048 »

whorleater wrote: post #61
Chris2048 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I actually need is "learning math in a short time", With a few, minimal yet illustrative examples (ala katas), plenty diagrams/illustrations and other mental aids, an no rigour - not a single bit of set-theory! The proofs and rigor can come later... Incidentally, I'm a dev in finance, looking to move into quant dev. I have a math degree (completed 2007) and I'm doing a "CQF" to catch up with the relevant quant k…

Without proofs and rigor, aren't you just reducing mathematics to a set of rules to be memorized? Sure, you can memorize the basics of group theory, but when it comes down to constructing the Diffie-Hellman Key-exchange, you'll still the mathematical intuition derived from learning the proofs.

Maybe, but most people condense this by creating mental models of the problem, like visualisations. That's the aim.

For example, consider learning vectors, without the spacial/Cartesian visualisation as an aid. Or geometry without the visuals.

An "intuition" wrt skill can only come from experience - repeated exercises and practise. But before that another kind of "intuition" can come from a useful mental model. Maybe at some stage, working mathematicians stop using these models, but I recon:

- They helped to learn the subject, in the early stages.

- They help in simple cases.

- They are not simply abandoned, but replaced with more powerful mental models.

Re: How to Learn Advanced Mathematics Without Heading to University – Part 3

#116

Post by Chris2048 »

lordnacho wrote: post #50
Chris2048 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's knowing the plumbing that makes you productive as a dev, of any kind Is this true of quant devs? Seems the focus is different - regular devs aren't as rare, so maybe the most important thing is producing a viable POC? As for quants not knowing VC - did they come from a dev background?

> As for quants not knowing VC - did they come from a dev background? No, and that was the problem. The more you venture into this field, the more you realise how much of it is coding. New idea about how price series X relates to Y? No use unless you can pull the data, do the transformations yourself. Another critical problem is that when you're unproductive, you make contortions to make your results "real". You make…

I think the last point is very important. Can a failing Quant easily bluff. Yikes.

Re: How to Learn Advanced Mathematics Without Heading to University – Part 3

#117

Post by chris_wot »

lumberjack wrote: post #83

This is stupid. The hard part about a Math degree is the number of hours you have to put in. If you cannot go to university full time, go part time. If you cannot go part time, you don't have enough time to actually learn any of these topics on your own. I've done these classes. It's typically 150 hours per class and it's not something you do after coming exhausted home from work either. After those 150 hours you'll…

Its it stupid at all. I taught myself Triginometry from a book for fun. Sure, not everyone's idea of a good time but I don't see the need to take a University or College course for lots of money when in fact I only spent about AU$34.95 on a good book and I didn't need to feel rushed in getting to grips with the concepts.

I learn different things at different speeds, a course makes me go at a speed I don't enjoy. This is perfect.

Re: How to Learn Advanced Mathematics Without Heading to University – Part 3

#118

Post by IvanK_net »

The hard part of learning anything without heading to university is not learning that subject, but persuading yourself, that you realy do need to learn each specific area of the subject thoroughly, even if you have never heard of it in your previous "career".

Re: How to Learn Advanced Mathematics Without Heading to University – Part 3

#119

Post by qrendel »

svanderbleek wrote: post #112
whorleater wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prerequisites for classes are oftentimes a suggestion, you can easily get into a class you don't meet the prerequisites for by simply signing up for the class (most class registration systems don't bar this), or by emailing the professor and getting an override. Furthermore, if you're a non-degree seeking student, the university cares very little about you, so you can skate by with a lot more freedom with classes.

Interesting. Certainly something to consider. I never thought about being a non-degree seeking student.

Eh, if you're just auditing the class, maybe. When I was in college they made me retake ridiculous prereqs for the most trivial of reasons every time I transferred, allowed no exceptions to these, and personal requests to professors to get out of them were completely ignored. The prereqs were enforced by the computerized registration system - good luck getting past them without a waiver.

As one anecdote, they once told me I needed to retake intro physics. On the pretest given on the first day of class, I came within one problem of a perfect score. Didn't make a lick of difference - their syllabus differed from the last university in the most minor of ways, and despite the fact that the class never actually covered even 50% of the stuff it claimed to on the syllabus, I was made to retake the entire sequence anyway.

Re: How to Learn Advanced Mathematics Without Heading to University – Part 3

#120

Post by svanderbleek »

qrendel wrote: post #119
svanderbleek wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. Certainly something to consider. I never thought about being a non-degree seeking student.

Eh, if you're just auditing the class, maybe. When I was in college they made me retake ridiculous prereqs for the most trivial of reasons every time I transferred, allowed no exceptions to these, and personal requests to professors to get out of them were completely ignored. The prereqs were enforced by the computerized registration system - good luck getting past them without a waiver. As one anecdote, they once to…

Having taken Algorithms at both undergrad and graduate levels and read through many books to prep Google/Facebook/etc interviews, I would flip out if anyone ever makes take an Algorithms class again.
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