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'Dirty Jobs' Mike Rowe Meets the Koch Brothers

mikerowe.com

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Re: 'Dirty Jobs' Mike Rowe Meets the Koch Brothers

#11

Post by justinator »

themartorana wrote: post #6
aaronbrethorst wrote: post #2

Meanwhile the Kochs have likely given around seven figures to ALEC[1], which has pushed aggressively for enhancing the laws[2] that Charles Koch is now, apparently, deeply opposed to. Maybe it's a turn of heart, but I'm rather skeptical. [1] https://www.thenation.com/article/alec-exposed-koch-connecti... [2] https://www.thenation.com/article/hidden-history-alec-and-pr...

"ALEC has proven expertly capable of devising endless ways to help private corporations benefit from the country’s massive prison population." Gross. "That mass incarceration would create a huge captive workforce was anticipated long before the US prison population reached its peak—and at a time when the concept of “rehabilitation” was still considered part of the mission of prisons." Are we finally admitting that th…

The Thirteenth Amendment covers this,

"Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction."

So...

Re: 'Dirty Jobs' Mike Rowe Meets the Koch Brothers

#12

Post by daeken »

tptacek wrote: post #9

This is a great little piece, and I'm glad I saw it, and I wouldn't have seen it at all had it not been at the top of HN (despite the fact that most of what Mike Rowe writes somehow lands in my Fb feed), and I even agree with I think something like 98% of what it says. But it still feels like an almost textbook example of what shouldn't be on the front page of HN. Something Mike Rowe writes about the importance of th…

I would argue that this post sets a great example for businesspeople. Sometimes in business you're going to come across someone with a strong reputation -- negative or positive -- and being able to understand them is important. So often we look at a reputation and base our actions and decisions on that, which I believe is inherently flawed.

We're all better off when different people can come together, understand each other, and work to make the world better, even if that's in a small way. So I think this is a great example of an HN post.

Re: 'Dirty Jobs' Mike Rowe Meets the Koch Brothers

#13

Post by tptacek »

daeken wrote: post #12
tptacek wrote: post #9

This is a great little piece, and I'm glad I saw it, and I wouldn't have seen it at all had it not been at the top of HN (despite the fact that most of what Mike Rowe writes somehow lands in my Fb feed), and I even agree with I think something like 98% of what it says. But it still feels like an almost textbook example of what shouldn't be on the front page of HN. Something Mike Rowe writes about the importance of th…

I would argue that this post sets a great example for businesspeople. Sometimes in business you're going to come across someone with a strong reputation -- negative or positive -- and being able to understand them is important. So often we look at a reputation and base our actions and decisions on that, which I believe is inherently flawed. We're all better off when different people can come together, understand each…

We'll see how much of the thread is about the skilled trades and how much of it is about the Koch Brothers role in horse-race US politics, and then we'll revisit.

Re: 'Dirty Jobs' Mike Rowe Meets the Koch Brothers

#15

Post by daeken »

tptacek wrote: post #13
daeken wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue that this post sets a great example for businesspeople. Sometimes in business you're going to come across someone with a strong reputation -- negative or positive -- and being able to understand them is important. So often we look at a reputation and base our actions and decisions on that, which I believe is inherently flawed. We're all better off when different people can come together, understand each…

We'll see how much of the thread is about the skilled trades and how much of it is about the Koch Brothers role in horse-race US politics, and then we'll revisit.

I don't think that the direction of the discussion necessarily imbues the value of an HN post. I also don't think that the skilled trades themselves were the focus of the post; rather, the focus was on what the Koch Brothers did for his foundation, and how it contrasts with their reputation.

Re: 'Dirty Jobs' Mike Rowe Meets the Koch Brothers

#16

Post by ocdtrekkie »

wallace_f wrote: post #10
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everybody believes what they push for is for the best. You believe what you're pushing for is for the best too! That's what people do. But at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter if the Koch brothers are evil incarnate or not, if Mike Rowe got them to dump a big pile of money into a good cause. You can both keep your opinion of the Koch brothers, without lowering your opinion of Mike Rowe. Because all he did…

>Everybody believes what they push for is for the best. You believe what you're pushing for is for the best too! That's what people do. I don't understand. I've known people to say things such as, "we're not good people," or, "honestly, why would I care about that?" I knew someone who did an oil change in his truck on the top floor of a parking garage, and let the oil drain down the storm drain - I said, "are you awa…

The problem is, I think you're fundamentally willing to accept that the conservative point of view is "wrong" and the liberal point of view is "right", and therefore, you believe the Koch brothers don't know what is right or don't care. There are both appealing and disgusting points in both the conservative and liberal rhetorics, and we get nowhere if we assume that is the case.

People's right and wrong (and level of care) is going to differ for various reasons. The amount of money you have is going to affect your amount of care too: People at the Koch brothers' income level have nothing left to do but care about things they think are not as they should be, and try to influence them. There's a point where you're so rich, you sway that money-laden power around to do what you think needs to be done. You and I may not agree with the Koch brothers on what needs to be done, but it doesn't mean they're inherently "wrong". And on the opposite end, someone who can't afford a shop to do their oil change may not be bothered about the tiny effect they might have on the environment in that one instance.

And again, even if they are evil incarnate. If Mike Rowe can get them to spend money on something good, then why shouldn't he? So look at the cause Mike is championing here, and decide how you feel about it. If you think he's doing a good thing, why does it matter where he got the money for it?

Re: 'Dirty Jobs' Mike Rowe Meets the Koch Brothers

#17

Post by rhizome »

themartorana wrote: post #6
aaronbrethorst wrote: post #2

Meanwhile the Kochs have likely given around seven figures to ALEC[1], which has pushed aggressively for enhancing the laws[2] that Charles Koch is now, apparently, deeply opposed to. Maybe it's a turn of heart, but I'm rather skeptical. [1] https://www.thenation.com/article/alec-exposed-koch-connecti... [2] https://www.thenation.com/article/hidden-history-alec-and-pr...

"ALEC has proven expertly capable of devising endless ways to help private corporations benefit from the country’s massive prison population." Gross. "That mass incarceration would create a huge captive workforce was anticipated long before the US prison population reached its peak—and at a time when the concept of “rehabilitation” was still considered part of the mission of prisons." Are we finally admitting that th…

Are we finally admitting that that's no longer (never really was) a thing?

"Never" would imply that it hadn't ever worked, which...I take your point if that's what you mean, but as for even attempting to implement rehabilitation as a part of incarceration, that drive ended via both the Left and Right in the mid-70s after Robert Martinson[0], a Freedom Rider, published an essay[1] based on his thesis critique of the state of rehabilitation in prison at the time[2]. This was reinterpreted into the "Nothing Works" doctrine by the media and politicians, which resulted in the concepts and uses of prison being turned completely punitive within 10 years.

Oh, if they're paid $0.20/hr they're not slaves?

Nope! It's if you're in prison it's not slavery[3].

0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Martinson

1. http://www.nationalaffairs.com/public_interest/detail/what-w...

2. https://www.ncjrs.gov/App/publications/Abstract.aspx?id=1959...

3. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirteenth_Amendment_to_the_Un...

Re: 'Dirty Jobs' Mike Rowe Meets the Koch Brothers

#18

Post by orangecat »

aaronbrethorst wrote: post #2

Meanwhile the Kochs have likely given around seven figures to ALEC[1], which has pushed aggressively for enhancing the laws[2] that Charles Koch is now, apparently, deeply opposed to. Maybe it's a turn of heart, but I'm rather skeptical. [1] https://www.thenation.com/article/alec-exposed-koch-connecti... [2] https://www.thenation.com/article/hidden-history-alec-and-pr...

Will you be voting for Hillary Clinton? If so, does that mean you support mass surveillance and incessantly bombing the Middle East?

Re: 'Dirty Jobs' Mike Rowe Meets the Koch Brothers

#19

Post by cperciva »

themartorana wrote: post #6
aaronbrethorst wrote: post #2

Meanwhile the Kochs have likely given around seven figures to ALEC[1], which has pushed aggressively for enhancing the laws[2] that Charles Koch is now, apparently, deeply opposed to. Maybe it's a turn of heart, but I'm rather skeptical. [1] https://www.thenation.com/article/alec-exposed-koch-connecti... [2] https://www.thenation.com/article/hidden-history-alec-and-pr...

"ALEC has proven expertly capable of devising endless ways to help private corporations benefit from the country’s massive prison population." Gross. "That mass incarceration would create a huge captive workforce was anticipated long before the US prison population reached its peak—and at a time when the concept of “rehabilitation” was still considered part of the mission of prisons." Are we finally admitting that th…

How is this different than slavery? Oh, if they're paid $0.20/hr they're not slaves?

I think the relevant question is whether the labour is forced. My understanding is that prison workforces are comprised of inmates who request to take part.

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