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Jupiter’s North Pole Unlike Anything Encountered in Solar System

nasa.gov

81–90 of 91 posts

Re: Jupiter’s North Pole Unlike Anything Encountered in Solar System

#81
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also fascinating to think about how TCP is ineffective at that distance. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interplanetary_Internet is a good starting point to learn more.

That means when humans finally colonize Mars, there will be two FaceBooks, FB Mars and FB Earth, with any communication between them running at a lag. I bet there will be AI research to create bots to act in "real time" on your behalf on the opposite planet. If the artificial agent can imitate your own actions and judgements, it would be a good way to surpass the speed of light. It will be necessary to build these ag…

You are truly seeing the future, my friend.

Re: Jupiter’s North Pole Unlike Anything Encountered in Solar System

#82
post #46

Ignoring all the fascinating stuff about Jupiter, let me point out this gem: The download of six megabytes of data [...] took one-and-a-half days I sometimes like to scare kids by telling them about the time when I surfed the Internet with 14.4 kbit modem, but even that looks incredibly fast compared to the speed of interplanetary data transmission (back then, 6 MiB would have taken me about 2-2.5 hours). (NB that I…

This is off topic for this post, but astronomy, space and space missions always have a way of putting things in perspective and showing how much humans have progressed and learned, and also the magnitude of human achievement (in the past) with what seem like completely unusable equipment today.

I look at the Voyager (1 and 2) data whenever I feel like comparing things to what we have today, and I always end up being overwhelmed by the facts, figures and what humans have achieved. I can't help but be awed.

Quoting from the Voyager FAQ [1]:

> Question: How fast are the Voyager computers?

> Answer:Not very fast compared to today’s standards. The master clock runs at 4 MHz but the CPU’s clock runs at only 250 KHz. A typical instruction takes 80 microseconds, that is about 8,000 instructions per second. To put this in perspective, a 2013 top-of-the-line smartphone runs at 1.5 GHz with four or more processors yielding over 14 billion instructions per second.

Quoting from the Voyager Interstellar Science page [2]:

> Science data are returned to earth in real time at 160 bps.

Just imagine sending data to earth at 160 bps from a distance of 20 billion kilometers and 17 billion kilometers^ [3] , respectively, for Voyager 1 and Voyager 2. The time it takes light to travel between earth and Voyager 1 and Voyager 2 is currently about 19 hours and 15.5 hours^, respectively. (Some other communication is collected and sent at 115 kbps)

^: These figures are rounded since it doesn't make a huge difference to me at this magnitude, and also, the distance from earth to these two spacecraft does sometimes decrease due to earth's revolution around the sun.

[1]: http://voyager.jpl.nasa.gov/faq.html

[2]: http://voyager.jpl.nasa.gov/science/

[3]: http://voyager.jpl.nasa.gov/where/

Re: Jupiter’s North Pole Unlike Anything Encountered in Solar System

#83
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since we're in the business of nitpicking – unique means one of a kind, so the "truly" is redundant. That said, there are so many planets in the Universe that it's practically impossible for any single one to be unique – the term is being used here not in a technically accurate way, but in a loose, "I want you to be impressed" sense.

Well, if you think about it, there aren't two planets which are 100% alike, so each planet can be called unique.

That's true, but in which case the term ceases to be useful!

Re: Jupiter’s North Pole Unlike Anything Encountered in Solar System

#84
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also fascinating to think about how TCP is ineffective at that distance. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interplanetary_Internet is a good starting point to learn more.

That means when humans finally colonize Mars, there will be two FaceBooks, FB Mars and FB Earth, with any communication between them running at a lag. I bet there will be AI research to create bots to act in "real time" on your behalf on the opposite planet. If the artificial agent can imitate your own actions and judgements, it would be a good way to surpass the speed of light. It will be necessary to build these ag…

Distributed systems are hard to get correctly when there's a few extra milliseconds of latency. Imagine now having 30 minutes of latency be the norm, and sometimes more.

It's an interesting problem I hope I'm around to witness.

Re: Jupiter’s North Pole Unlike Anything Encountered in Solar System

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The answer is we don't. Unlike the other three gas giants in the Solar System we can't see Jupiter's pole clearly. So Jupiter is unique to our solar system, and we don't know much about the visual details of exoplanets.

Is Jupiter all gas or does it have any mass? It is hard for m kind to imagine a big ball of gas looking like a planet and going around the sun

The thing is, there's a lot of gas, which like any other matter, has mass. So, even though a hydrogen atom is the lightest element possible, and we think of hydrogen gas a being light, that's just relative to other things. At a human scale, it isn't possible to have that much of the stuff around. But you can always go and collect a lot of it; in fact if you get ten to the power twenty seven kilograms of the stuff, and put it in one place, gravity will shape it into a sphere that looks very like Jupiter. Or, get 1000 times as much as that, and watch as gravity squeezes it so much it begins to fuse into helium at the centre - you'll have a star the size of our Sun...!

Re: Jupiter’s North Pole Unlike Anything Encountered in Solar System

#86
post #46

Ignoring all the fascinating stuff about Jupiter, let me point out this gem: The download of six megabytes of data [...] took one-and-a-half days I sometimes like to scare kids by telling them about the time when I surfed the Internet with 14.4 kbit modem, but even that looks incredibly fast compared to the speed of interplanetary data transmission (back then, 6 MiB would have taken me about 2-2.5 hours). (NB that I…

This is off topic for this post, but astronomy, space and space missions always have a way of putting things in perspective and showing how much humans have progressed and learned, and also the magnitude of human achievement (in the past) with what seem like completely unusable equipment today. I look at the Voyager (1 and 2) data whenever I feel like comparing things to what we have today, and I always end up being…

> Just imagine sending data to earth at 160 bps from a distance of 20 billion kilometers and 17 billion kilometers^ [3] , respectively, for Voyager 1 and Voyager 2.

Sending data - regardless of bandwidth - over these distances is very impressive in my book. Let alone sending a computer so far and have it still work after all these years.

Re: Jupiter’s North Pole Unlike Anything Encountered in Solar System

#87

Where does that infrared heat orginate? Fission?

Probably a combination of radioactive decay and gravitational collapse.

Probably another dumb question, if you would pump heat into this, and increase the isolation factor - could you produce a brown dwarf?

Re: Jupiter’s North Pole Unlike Anything Encountered in Solar System

#88

Where does that infrared heat orginate? Fission?

There are several sources of heat on Jupiter but the one being studied by this mission is the result of the very large magnetic field around Jupiter's generating auroras that are several times larger than the diameter of Earth.

[edit] Original statement wasn't completely accurate, as it does study the auroras, but they are generated by the planet itself. The solar wind doesn't reach the atmosphere of Jupiter.

Re: Jupiter’s North Pole Unlike Anything Encountered in Solar System

#89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably a combination of radioactive decay and gravitational collapse.

Probably another dumb question, if you would pump heat into this, and increase the isolation factor - could you produce a brown dwarf?

The lower theoretical threshold for a brown dwarf star, which fuses deuterium->lithium, is 13 times the mass of Jupiter. There isn't enough mass for fusion to occur on its own no matter how energetic the particles are.

Re: Jupiter’s North Pole Unlike Anything Encountered in Solar System

#90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably another dumb question, if you would pump heat into this, and increase the isolation factor - could you produce a brown dwarf?

The lower theoretical threshold for a brown dwarf star, which fuses deuterium->lithium, is 13 times the mass of Jupiter. There isn't enough mass for fusion to occur on its own no matter how energetic the particles are.

Thanks.
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