It seems like those calling for removing speakers are often trying to set identity contingencies. That is, a rule like, "if you are Douglas Crockford, then you can't speak at a conference". However, like identity contingencies against people based on gender, race, etc.. this kind of rule is disappointing because it assumes there is something inherently limited or bad about being Douglas Crockford. What seems better t…
Crockford
61–70 of 117 posts
Re: Crockford
#62Yeah, I don't get it either. FWIW, and why I'm commenting, "promiscuity" with regards to computer communications isn't even new with Crockford. It's the exact correct term used in the industry to refer to a mode you can put network cards into if you want to inspect all traffic that reaches it, rather than just traffic indented for your workstation [0]. It goes back at least to the early 1990s when I first encountered…
Re: Crockford
#63It seems pretty clear that this is more about a clique that is attacking Mr Crockford in order to obtain more power for themselves. They can now say - "Hey - you have to listen to us! We Matter! Look at what we forced the Nodevember people to do. We're a moral authority!". To go from complaining about a lack of diversity, to basically saying 'you screwed up and now need to prove your love to us by uninviting this JS…
Sensitive subjects seem to be effective conduits by which manipulative people can control others. What drives me to despair is that all too frequently it takes only a cursory glance at the Twitter feed of the person making the loudest complaints regarding inclusivity and diversity to find comments which compromise these values. The individual in this instance goes by @nexxylove on Twitter, and has recently retweeted…
Re: Crockford
#64Re: Crockford
#65He said a few things that feel like promoting a non inclusive environment. Which is bad, especially from someone like him, because many people look up to him and probably think it is okay to say such things. Edit: Also interesting that the HN crowd always confirms the accusations they receive.
source ? because I was unable to find anything that promotes "a non inclusive environment" in what Mr CrockFord said. Can you tell us exactly what CrockFord said that feels "non inclusive". Can you also precisely define what you mean by "non inclusive".
Re: Crockford
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Even though people didn't meant to offend, harass or shame other people. That's the thing - people who shame others are not looking at intent behind actions; they're getting offended by shallow interpretations (a sign of insecurity). Any reasonable person looking at Crockford making his "weak" joke would not think his intention was to harass physically weak people. This kind of shit is also why you see people like…
> This kind of shit is also why you see people like /r/the_donald I'm not sure if you just referred to a subreddit as a person, or referred to a ridiculously famous man by the path to the subreddit about him? Either way, wtf.
Re: Crockford
#67It disappoints me to see how many folks on Hacker News have responded to this incident by condemning the entire concept of standards of conduct and the idea that the developer community should take the goal of inclusivity and sensitivity seriously. There is no question that our community too often can feel hostile to those who aren't white hetero men, and that is a real problem. On the other hand, there is no questio…
Who. Who has responded that way?
Have you read the article?
There is:
- no official message on exactly why he was shit-canned.
- references in his previous talks to:
- "gonads" (literally, a reproductive organ, i.e. testicles or ovaries);
- "huevos" (eggs, in Spanish);
- something "standing out like dogs balls"; and
- commenting that drunk people were giving stupid talks at a conference.
If you claim that referring to having gonads is "exclusionary", because some people may have neither, then fuck it, you can't ever present anything that references the concept of seeing or hearing, because thats exclusionary to people with vision/hearing issues.I know some people don't like eating eggs, but its hardly reason to complain about a presenter at a conference.
Dogs balls do stand out. Have you seen a male dog that hasn't been de-sexed? Who is attending these conferences, 5 year olds? If someone is so offended by a reference to dogs testicles being very obvious, how on earth did they even make it to the conference? Most modern tv advertising is more explicit than that.
I can't even begin to comprehend how the last one is offensive. Oh wait. I know. We have to be inclusive. So presenters should be allowed (nay, ENCOURAGED!) to present drunk.
> Instead, let's engage in a constructive dialogue to figure out how to do better.
Given that no one that actually made the complaint seems willing to publicly identify specifically what they believe Crockford did wrong, how would you imagine that is even possible?
Oh wait, let me guess.
Complainant: " is non-inclusive, let's un-invite/ban him"
Moderator: "Well, hang on now, what exactly did he say or do?"
Complainant: "The moderator is being non-inclusive, let's ban him!"
Sponsor-Suckling-Controversy-Allergic-Organisers: "ok, we've banned all presenters except you and your hand-picked list of friends. we've also gone ahead and implemented the attendee filter you requested, and anyone who questions this process will of course be denied entry"
I'm all for women in tech, I'm all for equality and people not being attacked for who they are. I'm not for people using ridiculous mis-representation of a person to have that person removed from an event.
Re: Crockford
#68Earlier quoted context omitted.
Good job, you're really convincing people.
Well, I think Crockford is a standup guy and probably went to far with the Trump thing and the name calling but whatever. Sometimes you get passionate about a topic, it is what it is.
Consider backing up your denigration with facts next time; people aren't stupid, we can rationally analyze things.
Also 'the trump thing' and 'the name calling' are the same thing. You called him a retard because you find him offensive; don't try to rewrite history.
You changing your story now doesn't change the fact that you've insulted the mentally handicapped by painting them as something you perceive as negative; should I contact your previous/future employers about this?(I see you're a founder I guess I'd contact you :))
All of the above is why people are fed up with the 'left'.
You can cross the line and say, 'lel I just went too far'; people with the opposite viewpoint? 'Racist bigot white male fire them now'
Stay passionate Seb, hope you prove them wrong.
Re: Crockford
#69Think you're tolerant because, say, you don't mind being around gay people? Well, do you hate gay people? If you say no to that, then you aren't being tolerant at all by being around them, you're just normal.
Do you hate, say, Neo-nazis? Then you can demonstrate your tolerance by engaging with them politely and professionally if you encounter any.
Apparently, at some point, we not only ran away from being proud of our tolerance, many people are wearing their level of intolerance as a badge of pride. In some circles, it seems to be a good thing to find anybody who disagrees with you in some way, and gather a virtual lynch mob to make sure that the worst thing you can arrange happens to them.
Personally, I don't think Crockford did anything wrong. But if you do, why don't you try demonstrating your tolerance by welcoming him at your conference anyways and listening to his views on technical subjects? If he says something that bothers you, you can calmly and politely explain to him how his statement hurt you, or maybe even just let it go. That's what tolerance looks like.
Can we please get back to making real tolerance something to be proud of?