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Japan's Unprecedented Warning to UK Over Brexit

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Re: Japan's Unprecedented Warning to UK Over Brexit

#171

Post by 1wd »

Create wrote: post #158
1wd wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I understand it, even though the "informal proposal" is about "prioritising local workers over foreign ones" the actual proposal only requires informing the regional unemployment offices of open jobs, which might(?) not violate freedom of movement.

The issue is the following: In February 2014, the Swiss voted in a referendum to introduce quotas for all migrants in Switzerland. The referendum, which requires Switzerland to have annual quotas for immigrants, does not take effect immediately but requires the Swiss government to implement a quota system within three years. Nothing to do with regional unemployment offices.

Right, the current proposal tries to implement that referendum in a "light" way. The regional unemployment office measure would be step 2, and only in step 3 might the actual quotas come up, with explicit approval by the EU only.

https://www.parlament.ch/en/services/news/Pages/sda-spk-n-20...

Re: Japan's Unprecedented Warning to UK Over Brexit

#172

Post by msh »

nbevans wrote: post #79

A few thousand jobs that Japanese automakers bring to the UK is nothing compared to the jobs that can be created as a result of a successful Brexit. Jaguar Land Rover continues to go from strength to strength... how about turning the tables so we are actually selling more cars to Japan than they sell to us? Scary thought eh? That's what Brexit is about. It's about daring to think big. Like Great Britain used to do fo…

You know that Jaguar is owned by a Indian company, right?

Re: Japan's Unprecedented Warning to UK Over Brexit

#173

Post by threatofrain »

monk_e_boy wrote: post #150
hackuser wrote: post #136

People supporting bad policies like to say there are no bad consequences. You hear this about Brexit, climate change, bankrupting the government, violence and war, etc. It's the same rhetorical tool used for a lot of propaganda: You can lie in a moment; it takes hours or days for people to gather the evidence to disprove it. (To disarm this propaganda: It's easy to construct nonsense that sounds plausible - even to y…

Most people I talked to were well informed. I think a lot of people were happy to stick it to big business, most of who pay less tax than a local chippy. We felt Brexit was about control, we wanted more of it. When the USA told us off for wanting more freedom it felt a little weird... but, but, you're the land of the free. We just want to be able to control immigration. We want control from Brussels.

Brexit will do nothing for the fact that big businesses pay less taxes than smaller businesses. What is the most robust connection linking EU departure with reigning in big business practice?

Or framed another way, what is the most robust relationship linking Brexit with the decline of big business dominance? How is the marketplace going to become more egalitarian now? Are people seriously predicting a more egalitarian and regulated UK business environment due to exiting the EU?

As far as I understand, the UK's membership in the EU, along with Ireland, were part of the problem in helping businesses lower their tax rate, such as with the Isle of Man, which is technically not part of the UK, and is so wielded by the British government to help big businesses evade taxes and regulations.

Re: Japan's Unprecedented Warning to UK Over Brexit

#174

Post by tajen »

aaronbrethorst wrote: post #160
tajen wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think 52% of the UK voters are gullible?

I'd argue that enough were to give Leave the win. 37% of British people saw health care as one of the most important issues facing the UK in a June survey[1], and better health care was one of the key issues pushed by the Vote Leave campaign. [1] https://www.ipsos-mori.com/researchpublications/researcharch...

> I'd argue that enough were to give Leave the win.

In your document I read "48% people think that immigration is one of the most important issues facing Britain, just ahead of the EU referendum". The Remain camp proposed to increase immigration.

48% voters for the Leave camp as a start, that's pretty pretty high! Plus whatever % they convince about leaving Europe for other reasons. Total 52%, I'm surprised the result isn't higher actually.

Re: Japan's Unprecedented Warning to UK Over Brexit

#175

Post by threatofrain »

alva wrote: post #62

"With regard to unskilled workers, Japanese businesses rely on inexpensive labour from Eastern Europe in the manufacturing and agricultural industries in the UK" What a hypocritical demand from the Japanese. They have one of the strictest set of immigration policies in the world, largely for the sake of national homogeneity at the expensive of their economy. They believe that is a worthwhile sacrifice for them, why n…

I don't see why hypocrisy really matters in something as elevated and high-stakes as national policy. Rectifying the moral shame of hypocrisy should be like item #300 on a very long list of priorities.

Japan is making a cold policy argument about factors to business decisions, an argument for the factors that made the UK attractive.

Hypocrisy is a distraction focused on who is saying it rather than what is being said. If another country non-hypocritically repeated the same argument, does it make a difference? To you it does.

Re: Japan's Unprecedented Warning to UK Over Brexit

#176

Post by alkonaut »

nbevans wrote: post #161
alkonaut wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, that's how jobs are made. Make some good cars. Back out of the single market where you can sell them easily. Hope the Japanese will buy more to offset the losses in EU sales. I don't think the reason more Japanese cars are sold to the UK than vice versa is the single market.

Sarcasm; the lowest form of wit.

Aww you could have made that sarcastic e.g. with

"Sarcasm. Just great."

Re: Japan's Unprecedented Warning to UK Over Brexit

#177

Post by avar »

tajen wrote: post #64
microtonal wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that it is not in the EU's best interest to give the UK the best possible deal, especially with many populist parties ready to request an exit if the UK deal works out well. The whole process will be immensely complicated: the deal should be bad enough for the UK to instil fear for an exit, but good enough to avoid an economic collapse.

> instill fear Is that how Europe is governed? I think any country should be allowed to leave without condescending comments by anyone. I prefer staying in Europe, but if the majority of my fellows prefer the opposite, then it's democracy. Who are we to judge they are "stupid", "country-side, or "senile", like I've read all across newspapers, or even fascists, like I've heard too? If Europe relies on hating the peopl…

    > Is that how Europe is governed? [...] I prefer staying in
    > Europe, but if the majority of my fellows prefer the opposite,
    > then it's democracy.
It's democracy in action in the UK & EU that you can leave.

How does democracy have anything to do with the UK then getting some sort of preferential treatment for trade once they're out?

That would not be in the democratic interests of the remaining EU citizens who don't want to see the EU crumble any further.

Re: Japan's Unprecedented Warning to UK Over Brexit

#178

Post by wuschel »

sverige wrote: post #119
wuschel wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand, thanks for elaborating on that matter. In a way, a clean way to do it would to be a call for elections, and a proper mandate - either to stay in, or stay out. But that might not happen, considering the nature of the political game. I agree about the reasons to worry, and to have a proper discussion. Things tend to get out of hand sometimes when it comes to media.

I thought the vote for stay in or stay out was already had. Are you proposing to do it over and over until you get the result you want, then declare that this is the mandate?

As mentioned above, the vote has been made - but is not legally binding. I completely agree that one should respect the vote of the voters - after all, isn't that one of the basis of our western political systems?

On the other hand, what if the electorate did not vote out of protest, was misinformed by the politicians or media, or simply not educated enough to make the proper choice? Apart from the shocking failure of an established western democracy to make a good economical and political choice, what are the consequences at stake here?

For our startup, for instance, it means that we considered dropping potential R&D partners from the UK. For the UK economy, the consequences might be devastating.

In general, I am all for removing UK's special privileges, and their counterproductive attitude towards the EU. But I also do not want to see them go. The EU would loose a member state, and the UK might desintegrate (Northern Ireland and Scotland sure want to stay in the EU!).

Re: Japan's Unprecedented Warning to UK Over Brexit

#179

Post by davidf18 »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #169
davidf18 wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But the wages of Americans with American parents has risen, not fallen. Wages for Americans with American parents in the lowest quintile of income have risen the most - that seems like exactly the opposite of what your theory predicts! Are you certain that this applies to Americans that don't have a college education? That didn't graduate from high school? Those who would suffer most economically from uneducated im…

Are you certain that this applies to Americans that don't have a college education? No, I am not certain that Americans with American parents in the bottom 20% didn't get an education. Some of them probably did (about half the population has at least some college) and had their place at the bottom of the ladder filled by an immigrant. Don't look at averages, look at distributions. It helps if you actually follow the…

One of the documents is 38 pages and the other is 20 pages. Were there are emotions such as immigration and especially illegal immigration, it is important to provide the data and answer the exact question which I could not see the proper distribution.

“The facts support the application of Ricardo’s theory to immigration. Skilled immigrants lower the wages of skilled natives, and unskilled immigrants lower the wages of unskilled natives. … In contrast, in the United States, which takes in a far higher percentage of low-skilled immigrants than the U.K. does, it is unskilled wages that have stayed low: the income of unskilled workers has barely kept pace with inflation for the last forty years.” -- Tim Harford: The Undercover Economist (2nd ed) p. 30 https://www.amazon.com/dp/0199926514/

Financial Times columnist Harford has a BS & MS Economics Oxford

The question is: For people whose parents were born in the US without a high school education and also without a college education, and including those who have no income because they can't get a job is there wage growth or a decrease?

It is economists that state that immigrants who are uneducated displace those citizens who are working class.

Re: Japan's Unprecedented Warning to UK Over Brexit

#180

Post by aaronbrethorst »

tajen wrote: post #174
aaronbrethorst wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd argue that enough were to give Leave the win. 37% of British people saw health care as one of the most important issues facing the UK in a June survey[1], and better health care was one of the key issues pushed by the Vote Leave campaign. [1] https://www.ipsos-mori.com/researchpublications/researcharch...

> I'd argue that enough were to give Leave the win. In your document I read "48% people think that immigration is one of the most important issues facing Britain, just ahead of the EU referendum". The Remain camp proposed to increase immigration. 48% voters for the Leave camp as a start, that's pretty pretty high! Plus whatever % they convince about leaving Europe for other reasons. Total 52%, I'm surprised the resul…

What's to say that Leave is going to be able to keep to their promises on immigration either?
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