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In Norway, everyone can know how much you earn [video]

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Re: In Norway, everyone can know how much you earn [video]

#81
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't sound like a fun story at all, actually. I honestly don't see what kind of good could come from disclosing tax returns publicly..

Social control. When everyone is watching, not properly declaring your income is much more risky.

So, how will they know "if" I'm keeping some of my income undeclared? Remember - this is the DECLARED income that is public.

Re: In Norway, everyone can know how much you earn [video]

#82
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because you have a second job / side business / investment income that is independent of your primary job.

Alright, but why is that a problem? Might be a cultural difference thing that i'm not seeing. If you signed with the employer to not have any side business going on then it's a different story. But you would know this in the first place, so you would only complain about not being allowed to shoot yourself in the foot.

Most businesses paying a salary expect (and sometimes encode in your employment contract) that it is your sole job. They don't want the stress, mental fatigue, and time commitments of a second job competing with your work for them.

(This is my understanding, as a person living in the US anyway.)

Re: In Norway, everyone can know how much you earn [video]

#83
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because you have a second job / side business / investment income that is independent of your primary job.

Alright, but why is that a problem? Might be a cultural difference thing that i'm not seeing. If you signed with the employer to not have any side business going on then it's a different story. But you would know this in the first place, so you would only complain about not being allowed to shoot yourself in the foot.

If you look from it from an employers standpoint, that employee might not be around for much longer if his/hers side-business kicks off. It can be hard to find candidates that can replace that employee.

If the employee makes more money from that business than from yours, the employee has literally nothing to lose and may start to become sloppy with their work, not take it as seriously as he/she should, etc.

I'd say it's all about control.

Re: In Norway, everyone can know how much you earn [video]

#84

I'm sure that would be just peachy when the company you work for runs all its employees and notices that you reported more income than they are paying you. It was bad enough when I worked under a government grant so my salary was public. I prefer privacy.

I think the bigger problem lies in salary negotiations with a new employer.

Re: In Norway, everyone can know how much you earn [video]

#85
Here in Oslo I was in a startup where we had a British CEO. He argued about me keeping my pay rise secret. I said there's no such thing. We all know what we earn. It's public.

He was shocked. Then next day decided to tell everyone it was a fireable offence to disclose your salary.

Which we then said. That the action of making it a fireable offence is actually illegal and a fireable offence.

(He quit a number of months later)

Re: In Norway, everyone can know how much you earn [video]

#86
post #81
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Social control. When everyone is watching, not properly declaring your income is much more risky.

So, how will they know "if" I'm keeping some of my income undeclared? Remember - this is the DECLARED income that is public.

Snitches. "Oh, he bought a new car? But he only makes XXX a year... I'm gonna report him!"

Re: In Norway, everyone can know how much you earn [video]

#87
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because you have a second job / side business / investment income that is independent of your primary job.

Alright, but why is that a problem? Might be a cultural difference thing that i'm not seeing. If you signed with the employer to not have any side business going on then it's a different story. But you would know this in the first place, so you would only complain about not being allowed to shoot yourself in the foot.

So it's one thing to imagine you're a programmer who does a small amount of contracting on the side; now imagine you're a teacher who does some "mild" sex work (say, solo camming): the social and financial repercussions on them having their second job disclosed is a real risk. Even from the employer's point-of-view, it's a risk to their reputation for hiring such a person (there again, such a thing seems unlikely to be considered good enough reason to dismiss someone outside of their probationary period in Norway).

Re: In Norway, everyone can know how much you earn [video]

#88
post #81
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Social control. When everyone is watching, not properly declaring your income is much more risky.

So, how will they know "if" I'm keeping some of my income undeclared? Remember - this is the DECLARED income that is public.

If you have a porsche but only make $15k a year (or whatever), that's a good indication you're not declaring everything.

Re: In Norway, everyone can know how much you earn [video]

#89
post #15
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I had access to such information, I would immediately try to figure out how much my colleagues and peers in other groups/companies are making. Knowing how much other people are making for similar job functions, gives you huge negotiating power in managing your career. It's a net win for all workers in society.

Have you considered the alternative approach of talking to people? A lot less creepy than cyber stalking their tax reports.

And my experience in both Sweden and Norway is most people will just say, without judgement, because after all it's public anyway.

Re: In Norway, everyone can know how much you earn [video]

#90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it reduces your ability to negotiate its also acts to keep the lower orders in their place as an atypical candidate my have started out at a lower salary and so be les likely to progress to the same level as some one born with a silver spoon in their mouth

It's easy to say that without looking at the countries we're talking about here. The nordic countries are the closest places on earth to "everyone born equally". We all have access to the same education and healthcare, whether our parents have money or not (since it is fully government-funded through taxes).

Not to mention the strength of unions and collective bargaining (maybe not in tech in particular though)
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