Live data from Hacker News

In Norway, everyone can know how much you earn [video]

youtube.com

71–80 of 172 posts

Re: In Norway, everyone can know how much you earn [video]

#71
post #15
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I had access to such information, I would immediately try to figure out how much my colleagues and peers in other groups/companies are making. Knowing how much other people are making for similar job functions, gives you huge negotiating power in managing your career. It's a net win for all workers in society.

Have you considered the alternative approach of talking to people? A lot less creepy than cyber stalking their tax reports.

From my experience, this is one case where both sides are entrenched and refuse to accept the logic of the other side.

Same as the "prices should be stated with taxes included or not" debate. Good luck with that in the US. And with the metric system. And in other countries, driving on the left side of the road. It's culture, not logic.

Re: In Norway, everyone can know how much you earn [video]

#72
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Might be me missing something cultural here. 1. Why would you report that you earn more than you do, then you would just pay more tax than you had to? 2. Why would the employer care that you earn more in total than they pay you?

Because you have a second job / side business / investment income that is independent of your primary job.

Alright, but why is that a problem? Might be a cultural difference thing that i'm not seeing.

If you signed with the employer to not have any side business going on then it's a different story. But you would know this in the first place, so you would only complain about not being allowed to shoot yourself in the foot.

Re: In Norway, everyone can know how much you earn [video]

#73
post #28

Norway has zero transparency when it comes to children rights. Some governments (Slovak, Czech, Romania) recommend not to travel there with children. EDIT: Some explanations. - In Norway social services (Barnevernet) can take children from family without any explanation. - Parents are under gag order, and can not talk about their case. Talking to press means you loose parental rights. - There is no appeal, proof, or…

I'm an immigrant in Norway. I do not have children, but have heard the stories. I used to hear some of the same stories in the American system, which also tends to not release details to protect the children.

Norway has strict laws about children and children have rights. These laws aren't bent because one is from another culture and living here. For example, physical punishment is pretty common in the US, but it is outright illegal here. It is seen as child abuse. If you have a drug problem, you might get your children taken away until you get yourself straigtened out. Sometimes you have to have classes or observation, and sometimes your children are removed until you do so. And honestly, from what I've seen with other immigrants, so long as you are following Norwegian law with the child, there isn't a problem.

> Parents are under gag order. This is to protect the children. You see, if everyone finds out about it, they might treat the child differently or it might cause hardship or embarrass the child. And equality between kids is really important, so this sort of thing is avoided.

> There is no appeal, proof, or any oversight. This is simply untrue. It might take time to appeal, but one can. Proof is an odd thing, and if things aren't clear upfront, they will take steps to make sure that the child won't be in danger if it is true. One has avenues to get help, but one must work within the system and take the steps. I don't know how well they work with foreign social workers, but again, if it is illegal in the country, you might be out of luck. People usually are expected to follow the laws of the country they are in.

> Does not release any details about cases, to protect children... even if child is already dead. Again, to protect children. In the case that the child dies, this is truly more to protect what might be innocent parties involved.

> Siblings are often split This is not unique to Norway. Sometimes this is the only way to keep kids safe: Other times, this is done while the investigation is going on so that one child doesn't influence the others.

> Removed children must speak Norwegian, the mother tongue is suppressed. First, the kids will learn once they get school age - or earlier, if they are in kindergarden. It would be expected if they live here for an extended time because otehrwise they will be singled out. This really is just an effect of living in a foreign country. Finding safe homes with speakers of every language would be very difficult, and again. Better to find safe homes. This isn't something deliberate to harm people.

> relatives of children have zero chance to get custody. I don't know for sure, but I doubt this is true and more rumor than anything. It would depend on the situation. In some cases, there would be little chance because the relative wouldn't keep the child removed from the threat (parents), but other cases, it might be possible.

> anonymous surveys... Proof, man. Otherwise this is just rumor.

Re: In Norway, everyone can know how much you earn [video]

#75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it's a different culture here in Scandinavia. Personally, I couldn't care less if anyone wanted to look up my salary - whether it is a recruiter or someone else. I have my own valuation of my time and skills and if a potential employer can't meet that, there's someone else who will. Having this mindset will help sift out companies that you probably wouldn't want to work for in the first place.

But it reduces your ability to negotiate its also acts to keep the lower orders in their place as an atypical candidate my have started out at a lower salary and so be les likely to progress to the same level as some one born with a silver spoon in their mouth

It's easy to say that without looking at the countries we're talking about here. The nordic countries are the closest places on earth to "everyone born equally". We all have access to the same education and healthcare, whether our parents have money or not (since it is fully government-funded through taxes).

Re: In Norway, everyone can know how much you earn [video]

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the government being transparent you have to know what the government collects. But for that it doesn't matter what a single person earns and pays. This might be more relevant with corporate taxes (where authorities make deals to keep a company in one location), subsidiaries or donations to political parties (which aim for influence)

I think all public, private and corporate financial transactions, including cash transactions, should be public, with absolutely no expectation of privacy or avoidance through clever financial engineering or creative accounting. Every single transaction. Ever. In the whole world. Recorded permanently. It would be the fastest way to end political corruption. It would also shine some light on who the world's richest pe…

[deleted]

Re: In Norway, everyone can know how much you earn [video]

#77
post #59

I'm sure that would be just peachy when the company you work for runs all its employees and notices that you reported more income than they are paying you. It was bad enough when I worked under a government grant so my salary was public. I prefer privacy.

When would that be the case? When you have another job on the side? How is that your employer's business?

>How is that your employer's business?

Exactly. That's why public income info is a bad idea.

Re: In Norway, everyone can know how much you earn [video]

#78
post #59

I'm sure that would be just peachy when the company you work for runs all its employees and notices that you reported more income than they are paying you. It was bad enough when I worked under a government grant so my salary was public. I prefer privacy.

When would that be the case? When you have another job on the side? How is that your employer's business?

In the US there is a not small number of employers who take a very negative view of moonlighting. This is true in every industry, and in knowledge work industries like software it is compounded by a fear of IP theft. So whether it should be their business or not doesn't matter: they'll make it their business.

Re: In Norway, everyone can know how much you earn [video]

#79
post #67

Coming from Sweden and being used to public tax records I was nevertheless a bit surprised at the transparency in Norway when anyone could look up anyone online anonymously. It made it extremely simple to for example create list of everyone at work or on your street (or use the data for any purpose). They later changed it in 2011 (?) such that the other person will get notified about who looked him/her up. I don't kn…

It was the same in Sweden when Ratsit first opened. Around 2007 or so. And you can still do it for a charge, but the subject will be notified.

Re: In Norway, everyone can know how much you earn [video]

#80
post #74

I have an idea. Everybody mind their own fucking business, and stop trying to pry into everyone else's.

I would prefer the other way around. Everything regarding the state should be open, even how much you pay in taxes.

In Portugal they are apparently kind of doing the opposite of Norway - publishing who did not pay the tax: http://www.e-financas.gov.pt/de/pubdiv/de-devedores.html
Post reply on HN