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Thousands of adoptees thought they were US citizens but learned they are not

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Re: Thousands of adoptees thought they were US citizens but learned they are not

#41
post #28

The more bizarre part is how the various federal agencies do not coordinate. For example, the "fear they will be unable to collect Social Security benefits they have paid into." This means these people are paying taxes to the IRS who collects SS money from them yet they are "not eligible" to work in the US. This is "impossible" but the tax man doesn't ask questions when people send him money. I think if someone has p…

The problem with that is that it penalizes legal residents waiting for their citizenship

My brother has been in the US for nearly 20 years. Started out as a grad student, then as a H1-B. Took him more than 10 years just to get a green card, then 5 years more to be eligible for citizenship.

All this while, he must have paid several hundred thousand dollars in taxes (6+ figure income over 15 years)

Why should another immigrant get the same benefits as him faster than he could by paying even less in taxes?

Re: Thousands of adoptees thought they were US citizens but learned they are not

#42

I know a girl that had to leave the U.S. >24 The story ( as far as I can remember ) is that a family of Germans moved to the U.S. with their 1 year old child. 24 years later the child graduated university and ... needs to apply for a green card or permanent VISA. US government refused, so she had to come back to Germany. I've never understood why U.S. is so protective in terms of citizenship. In most of the EU countr…

> I've never understood why U.S. is so protective in terms of citizenship. We've got a lot of racist assholes, basically. Particularly ironic for a country that was founded on immigration. These laws, and their heavy-handed enforcement, are mainly targeted at keeping out Mexicans. European and Asian immigrants are collateral damage, essentially. Europe, unfortunately, is starting to go the same way. I think it was Sw…

The two stories doesn't match.

It was a decision of the girls ( or their father ) [1] not to be naturalized. They could've just did the swim with the boys and they would've got their citizenship.

On the other hand my friend had NO CHOICE in her 24 year stay in the U.S. to get a citizenship ( although she followed all the rules / laws of the country ).

[1] http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/switzerland-c...

Re: Thousands of adoptees thought they were US citizens but learned they are not

#43
post #28

The more bizarre part is how the various federal agencies do not coordinate. For example, the "fear they will be unable to collect Social Security benefits they have paid into." This means these people are paying taxes to the IRS who collects SS money from them yet they are "not eligible" to work in the US. This is "impossible" but the tax man doesn't ask questions when people send him money. I think if someone has p…

The problem with that is that it penalizes legal residents waiting for their citizenship My brother has been in the US for nearly 20 years. Started out as a grad student, then as a H1-B. Took him more than 10 years just to get a green card, then 5 years more to be eligible for citizenship. All this while, he must have paid several hundred thousand dollars in taxes (6+ figure income over 15 years) Why should another i…

> Why should another immigrant get the same benefits as him faster than he could by paying even less in taxes?

Because it's not a zero-sum game.

One person's right to citizenship does not erode another person's right to citizenship.

Re: Thousands of adoptees thought they were US citizens but learned they are not

#44

I know a girl that had to leave the U.S. >24 The story ( as far as I can remember ) is that a family of Germans moved to the U.S. with their 1 year old child. 24 years later the child graduated university and ... needs to apply for a green card or permanent VISA. US government refused, so she had to come back to Germany. I've never understood why U.S. is so protective in terms of citizenship. In most of the EU countr…

> I've never understood why U.S. is so protective in terms of citizenship. We've got a lot of racist assholes, basically. Particularly ironic for a country that was founded on immigration. These laws, and their heavy-handed enforcement, are mainly targeted at keeping out Mexicans. European and Asian immigrants are collateral damage, essentially. Europe, unfortunately, is starting to go the same way. I think it was Sw…

Europe was like that for a long time. France and Germany were vey scared when eastern countries joined EU.

Re: Thousands of adoptees thought they were US citizens but learned they are not

#45
post #28

The more bizarre part is how the various federal agencies do not coordinate. For example, the "fear they will be unable to collect Social Security benefits they have paid into." This means these people are paying taxes to the IRS who collects SS money from them yet they are "not eligible" to work in the US. This is "impossible" but the tax man doesn't ask questions when people send him money. I think if someone has p…

The problem with that is that it penalizes legal residents waiting for their citizenship My brother has been in the US for nearly 20 years. Started out as a grad student, then as a H1-B. Took him more than 10 years just to get a green card, then 5 years more to be eligible for citizenship. All this while, he must have paid several hundred thousand dollars in taxes (6+ figure income over 15 years) Why should another i…

"...with a minimum of $50K over ten years, in taxes to the US government, and they have not committed any crime, they should be given citizenship..."

In this hypothetical scenario would your brother not have paid $50k and been granted citizenship much sooner than the other?

Re: Thousands of adoptees thought they were US citizens but learned they are not

#46
What was most shocking to me was that some of these kids managed to get U.S. passports without being citizens. How does that happen? I'm a first generation immigrant. My parents were naturalized when I was 10. AFAIK that means that I automatically acquired their naturalization. But I do not have a naturalization certificate of my own, and I don't have a copy of my parents certificate. I do hold a U.S. passport, but that is apparently not ironclad proof of citizenship. I'm frankly not sure what I would do if Trump gets elected and the brown shirts show up no my doorstep to haul my ass back to Germany because my passport is invalid.

Ironically, my situation is a little less tenuous because I am the biological child of naturalized immigrants rather than the adopted child of natural-born citizens. Like so many things about this story, that seems so wrong.

Re: Thousands of adoptees thought they were US citizens but learned they are not

#47
The legal history of the concept of citizenship in the United States is remarkably circuitous. The original text of the constitution referred only to citizens of individual states, never to citizens of the United States. Consequently, federal law and jurisprudence lacked any conception of national citizenship until the decision of Dred Scott v. Sanford in 1856, in which Chief Justice Roger B. Taney created the concept from whole cloth for the purpose of declaring Scott, a slave, not to be an American citizen and therefore not entitled to petition a federal court. The precedent held until the constitutional amendments of Reconstruction rectified it, explicitly introducing the concept of national citizenship into the constitution as a side effect.

There has remained a great deal of ambiguity about who is entitled to American citizenship by birth. Although the constitution as amended grants certain rights only to national citizens, the amendments that made national citizenship a part of the constitution failed to describe comprehensively who is entitled to citizenship. As a consequence, the question of who is and who is not a citizen, rather than being been decided on constitutional grounds, has been left to Congress. The odd result is that ordinary federal law, not the constitution itself, decides who is entitled to many fundamental constitutional rights and protections, including the basic rights to live in the United States and vote in national elections.

An interesting series of changes to the federal laws governing national citizenship occurred in the years after World War II. Because thousands of American soldiers and sailors were for the first time being permanently stationed abroad, there arose the question of whether their children born abroad had a right to citizenship. Federal law had previously granted citizenship to all children of American citizens, but during this period the laws were re-written to exclude the illegitimate children of military men with foreign women from citizenship in most cases. Today the law deciding the citizenship of children born abroad to a single American parent is a tangle of considerations of the marital status of the parents, when the child first visits American territory, how long he or she stays, etc.

I've sometimes wondered what the world might have been like in another several generations if those exclusions hadn't been made; by that time, due to the wonders of sexual reproduction, it's likely that tens or hundreds of millions of people outside the United States would be able to find an American in their ancestry, and therefore to claim American citizenship. Eventually, almost everyone would be an American. What would the world be like if everyone were entitled to vote in American elections (and obligated to pay American taxes)?

Re: Thousands of adoptees thought they were US citizens but learned they are not

#48

I know a girl that had to leave the U.S. >24 The story ( as far as I can remember ) is that a family of Germans moved to the U.S. with their 1 year old child. 24 years later the child graduated university and ... needs to apply for a green card or permanent VISA. US government refused, so she had to come back to Germany. I've never understood why U.S. is so protective in terms of citizenship. In most of the EU countr…

> I've never understood why U.S. is so protective in terms of citizenship. We've got a lot of racist assholes, basically. Particularly ironic for a country that was founded on immigration. These laws, and their heavy-handed enforcement, are mainly targeted at keeping out Mexicans. European and Asian immigrants are collateral damage, essentially. Europe, unfortunately, is starting to go the same way. I think it was Sw…

>Europe, unfortunately, is starting to go the same way. I think it was Switzerland that denied citizenship to a couple of teenage Muslim girls because they didn't want to swim with boys in mandatory co-ed swim class.

Behave like us, or get the hell out. Is that racist to you? Then I have bad news. You'll start to see that more and more often with time.

And, unless the elites react in time, you'll see a purge in ~30 years.

Re: Thousands of adoptees thought they were US citizens but learned they are not

#49
post #46

What was most shocking to me was that some of these kids managed to get U.S. passports without being citizens. How does that happen? I'm a first generation immigrant. My parents were naturalized when I was 10. AFAIK that means that I automatically acquired their naturalization. But I do not have a naturalization certificate of my own, and I don't have a copy of my parents certificate. I do hold a U.S. passport, but t…

Really? Trump and the brown shirts? Do we need to compare everybody to Hitler?

I read an article recently that says he's more of an American version of Italy's Berlusconi, and that seems more reasonable to me.

Re: Thousands of adoptees thought they were US citizens but learned they are not

#50
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've never understood why U.S. is so protective in terms of citizenship. We've got a lot of racist assholes, basically. Particularly ironic for a country that was founded on immigration. These laws, and their heavy-handed enforcement, are mainly targeted at keeping out Mexicans. European and Asian immigrants are collateral damage, essentially. Europe, unfortunately, is starting to go the same way. I think it was Sw…

Europe was like that for a long time. France and Germany were vey scared when eastern countries joined EU.

Well, it still is. Just look at Brexit, which was largely driven by eastern immigrants "stealing jobs"
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