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Republic – Now everyone can invest in startups

republic.co

61–70 of 84 posts

Re: Republic – Now everyone can invest in startups

#61

Wow, I'm blown away by the negativity in this thread. I know Silicon Valley is conservative but this is killing it. In Europe (of all places), this sort of stuff has been going on for a number of years now. The first startup I worked for had gathered its €150k preseed funding from over 20 people. Not even with a convertible note, they really all went to the lawyer's office together. It was pretty nuts, but it got the…

I don't think anyone is opposed to this for classist reasons like you're suggesting. You're bringing up Kickstarter as an example of a successful crowdfunding service, but in this context Kickstarter seems like more of a cautionary tale.

Kickstarter is definitely a mixed bag, but I don't blame Kickstarter itself for that. Kickstarter is awesome, and many awesome things now exist that wouldn't have existed without it. I love Kickstarter.

The problems with Kickstarter are with some of the people using it. It's all just human nature, I don't think there's anything that Kickstarter (the company) can really do to curtail it.

Problems include people starting projects from scratch via Kickstarter, and making promises about schedules and deliverables when in many cases those things are literally unknowable when they start accepting money from people. Sometimes people get in over their head, and don't realize how deep of a hole they've dug themselves into until it's way too late.

Problems also include people giving money to Kickstarters and assuming that the schedules are real, that the products will turn out as they've been pitched, and that they will receive what's been promised to them. Hopefully everything works out, but realistically you've got to be OK with the worst-case scenario (you get nothing back) when you back a project.

I see Kickstarter as more of an angel investment vehicle, and I think Kickstarter tries to present itself in this way. If something looks promising, I might put some money into it, but beyond that I have no expectation that I will ever get anything out of it. It's a pleasant surprise if I do. However, no matter how many times Kickstarter tells people that Kickstarter is not a store, there's a continuous stream of people who seem surprised when things don't turn out as expected, and will scream for refunds and devote insane amounts of time to ruining the lives of the people who bit off more than they could chew when they started raising money.

Basically, in addition to its merits, Kickstarter can be a brutally productive factory of sadness, for the people with Kickstarters as well as the backers. Given that something like 90-95% of startups fail (I could be wrong, but those are the numbers I usually hear), Republic sounds like it could be an even bigger factory for vastly more sadness, without the success stories that make it all worthwhile. The few people who luck into putting money into a successful startup will surely get very angry and entitled when they see a small business that they gifted money to becoming successful, but they don't see an equivalent return on their investment. The 90-95% of the people who lose their money when the startup folds will surely also be surprised and angry, and demand their money back if they don't think the startup was competently run (not that they have any way to really know this). It just sounds like all downside with very little (if any) upside.

Re: Republic – Now everyone can invest in startups

#62

Wow, I'm blown away by the negativity in this thread. I know Silicon Valley is conservative but this is killing it. In Europe (of all places), this sort of stuff has been going on for a number of years now. The first startup I worked for had gathered its €150k preseed funding from over 20 people. Not even with a convertible note, they really all went to the lawyer's office together. It was pretty nuts, but it got the…

> Why is it stupid to invest $5k in a startup but not to invest $500k in a startup? Because if you invest $500k, you get information rights, and a significant number of votes. If you invest $5k, you get nothing, and you just have to hope the company makes good decisions. It's like buying a $5k lottery ticket -- it's an investment based entirely on trust without any information, accountability, or influence over the o…

Do people really want information rights and votes on a $5K investment? How little is your time actually worth?

That's a set-and-forget "investment" if there ever was one.

Re: Republic – Now everyone can invest in startups

#63
One of the tags for projects is "Women Founders". In theory that shouldn't make a difference as to how investable a project is or isn't? It seems as ridiculous as giving the founder's favourite colours or ethnicity. I just don't understand what they were thinking when they put that feature in.

Re: Republic – Now everyone can invest in startups

#64
Don't current Title III rules make it legally risky for companies to crowdfund like this? The last thing I read about this suggested that crowdfunding like this could put a startup in a position of having to effectively go public very early in their life --- which would suggest that none of the best startups would crowdfund, which would create a major adverse selection problem for Republic.

Re: Republic – Now everyone can invest in startups

#65
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is an investor in such a company supposed to actually get a return? Unless the company is paying dividends or something similar, the only payout comes from selling your shares or if the company is acquired at a premium. But who is going to buy these companies with a conservative "slow and steady" growth rate and market share?

There are lots of ways to get a return. I helped start Lighter Capital (originally "RevenueLoan"), which invests a lump sum that gets repaid as a percentage of revenue (like a royalty). That model, Revenue-Based Financing, is harder to game than dividends (management can and often does make profit "disappear" but rarely has any incentive to make revenue disappear). You can also have redemption rights or dividends. De…

I totally agree, but in cases like Republic with a Crowd Safe, none of those options seem to apply unless I'm missing something. My question was for crowd funded smaller companies that have low potential of an exit - in those cases how is a crowd funding "investor" going to realize a return?

Re: Republic – Now everyone can invest in startups

#66
post #64

Don't current Title III rules make it legally risky for companies to crowdfund like this? The last thing I read about this suggested that crowdfunding like this could put a startup in a position of having to effectively go public very early in their life --- which would suggest that none of the best startups would crowdfund, which would create a major adverse selection problem for Republic.

You're right -- a company with $25M in assets and 500 unaccredited shareholders is essentially forced to go public. That's why traditional security instruments are poorly suited for investment crowdfunding. We created and open-sourced a derivative of the YC Safe called the Crowd Safe to solve for this (more at https://republic.co/crowdsafe).

Re: Republic – Now everyone can invest in startups

#67
post #36
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You raise some good points. The Crowd Safe is essentially a YC Safe (which in turn is a standardized convertible note) that gives companies control over when to convert, rather than conversion necessarily happening in the following financing round. Given the ubiquity of convertible notes in early stage financings, legal treatment shouldn't be a unique concern. To your point on startups not being able to convince VCs…

The Crowd Safe is not similar to YC Safe or any convertibles issued in pre seed financing that I have seen or received. Crowd Safe seems to cap upside for investor during conversion and defers everything to company's discretion. Even the example in OP's link shows in the event of exit, the investor upside is capped at company's discretion. The whole thing is structured pretty badly. I have stayed away from equity cro…

The Crowd Safe is designed to give investors the same economic outcome as shareholders, and doesn't cap upside upon conversion. If you're referring to the valuation cap (the only reference to a cap upon exit at OP's link), that's a standard term in convertible notes that sets the maximum price an investor will pay upon conversion. Let me know if I misunderstood.

Re: Republic – Now everyone can invest in startups

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is an investor in such a company supposed to actually get a return? Unless the company is paying dividends or something similar, the only payout comes from selling your shares or if the company is acquired at a premium. But who is going to buy these companies with a conservative "slow and steady" growth rate and market share?

For small-cap companies, debt instruments can be a perfect way to raise capital. Investors hold a promissory note promising to re-pay the capital loaned, with interest, over a specified period of time.

If a company can get debt financing, it's a great choice for them. But there's not a lot of investors interested in loaning money to a company with no assets and little to no revenue. At least not at reasonable interest rates. And unreasonable interest rates can be problematic due to usury laws. The rigid repayment timing can also be problematic for the borrower. Equity is really a better fit for companies that have greater than, say, a 10% chance of not being able to repay their investors.

Re: Republic – Now everyone can invest in startups

#69
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For small-cap companies, debt instruments can be a perfect way to raise capital. Investors hold a promissory note promising to re-pay the capital loaned, with interest, over a specified period of time.

If a company can get debt financing, it's a great choice for them. But there's not a lot of investors interested in loaning money to a company with no assets and little to no revenue. At least not at reasonable interest rates. And unreasonable interest rates can be problematic due to usury laws. The rigid repayment timing can also be problematic for the borrower. Equity is really a better fit for companies that have…

I used to think so as well. Anecdotally, my company has experienced the exact opposite.

Likely rare (and requires luck) but it can be done.

Re: Republic – Now everyone can invest in startups

#70

Republic - Invest in the startups real investors won't invest in

That strikes me as a very cynical view, and I consider myself to be a pretty cynical guy. You could also make the same argument about other market platforms: "Ebay - Buy things real shoppers won't" "Uber - Get a ride somewhere real taxis won't go" "Monster.com - Hire people real employers won't" Is it really that different?

eBay and Uber cater to the same folks that use competing services. No one on Sand Hill Road is going to use Republic.

As for Monster...that's a little too accurate.

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