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Even the Rich Are Being Priced Out of Central London

citylab.com

191–200 of 216 posts

Re: Even the Rich Are Being Priced Out of Central London

#191
post #19

And... this is what happens when you don't tax foreign cash infusions. For those who think we should get rid of taxes on cash repatriations - this is likely an outcome.

> And... this is what happens when you don't tax foreign cash infusions. Why would you do that?! It's basically free cash flowing into the local economy, it would be absurd to "tax it". Am I missing something?

Plenty that you're missing:

1. At some point it's foreign money buying from other foreign owners who don't live there, and who use the proceeds to buy an even more costly money box/laundery

2. It reduces rental supply and prices out locals who then have to spend money on commuter expenses

3. Even if the above weren't true it's debatable how much of the purchase price actually flows into the local economy

Re: Even the Rich Are Being Priced Out of Central London

#192
post #165
post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US, the federal government has acted in a big way to prop up home prices when they threatened to fall. It's hard to imagine how we can have it both ways: If the government effectively insures real estate against loss, then investors (i.e., people with money) will take advantage of that, increase demand, and raise the price of the investments (i.e., houses you and I want to buy).

hkmurakami made a very astute comment a few days ago about this: > It seems that we made a pact with the devil by positioning housing as an > investment asset. By doing so, we've encouraged people to commit a very large > fraction of their net worth into a rather illiquid asset, tying their financial > fates to the future assessment of that asset. As a result, protecting the price > and appreciation of this asset has…

It sounds like we're well balanced then.

Markets are efficient.

Re: Even the Rich Are Being Priced Out of Central London

#193
post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a reason they didn't tax non-use? The "foreigner exclusion" sounds like fighting a symptom. Simply require proof of residency in the property (or an active lease agreement / market listing) to qualify for a tax break. Otherwise, if you're parking-and-holding-without-using, you get slapped with a higher tax rate.

Cambridge MA, has a resident tax abatement program. It hasn't seemed to help much as we are starting to see foreign all cash sales...

Starting? It's been rampant for well over a year. We opted out of the whole mess and moved to Salem. $200/sqft for a beautiful historic mansion in an eminently walkable small city that's a quick train ride from North Station. Don't fight it. Just bail.

Re: Even the Rich Are Being Priced Out of Central London

#194
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't we solve this problem with virtualization? Build houses in the middle of nowhere, but assign a central London address.

Haha this is great. On a more serious note, maybe banks could offer some sort of investment vehicle made up of homes in a certain area. The homes would then be rented out for revenue, and foreign buyers could have an equivalent financial position without driving away actual residents.

[deleted]

Re: Even the Rich Are Being Priced Out of Central London

#195
It's interesting how this seems to play out politically.

- Wealthy foreigners purchase property primarily as an investment.

- Said property is left vacant or only used infrequently.

- Locals that would otherwise have lived in these wealthy neighbourhoods start purchasing elsewhere.

- A chain reaction occurs putting pressure on prices down through the market.

- This is interpreted as a shortage of homes.

- Poorer immigrants are blamed for the increased demand.

I'm certainly not suggesting that this is sole reason for rising property prices (I think buy-to-let is probably a bigger issue), but I think that the simple assumption that most people make - i.e. that there is simply a shortage of homes is lazy and likely incorrect. There are two sides to the supply and demand equation and the typical focus on the supply side as the underlying issue is problematic.

In my opinion, more attention should be given to the demand side of the equation. A speculative boom creates demand - not for homes but for 'investment' opportunities.

There is a survey carried out each year in Melbourne (a city with similar property market problems to London and Vancouver) by an organisation called Prosper Australia. It is called the 'Speculative Vacancies Report' and is conducted using an interesting methodology.

Typically, the vacancy rates you hear about in the media are sourced from the real estate industry and are collected by asking agencies what percentage of properties on their books are currently vacant. A typical response is something like 3%.

The Prosper Australia report instead looks at water usage per property and shows much higher vacancy rates (close to 30% in some areas of Melbourne). Interestingly, higher vacancy rates correlate with areas that have higher price appreciation. This is not at all intuitive if you assume a simple relationship between supply of residences and demand for homes. It is more understandable if you consider that the demand side is in large part driven by people seeking speculative investment opportunities rather than homes.

Given all of this, I think that the solution is not to be found in building more homes (likely to make any crash worse) but in making property less attractive as an investment. In many markets, this wouldn't mean punitive measures but instead removing existing incentives and possibly better regulation of lending so as to ensure banks and investors are left in no doubt that the risks they take when speculating (especially leveraged speculation) are their own responsibility and the taxpayer will not prop up the market for their benefit when prices stop rising (I say 'stop rising' and not 'fall' here because in a speculative boom that should be sufficient to lead to a fall if it lasts long enough).

Re: Even the Rich Are Being Priced Out of Central London

#196

The problem is not specific to foreign investors. Local investors are also more than capable of buying up perfectly good homes and letting them sit there vacant and unused. Whether the people are foreign has nothing to do with it. The problem is that society tolerates this practice of investors swallowing up housing, pricing people out of the market, and then leaving perfectly those good homes vacant. Couldn't the so…

A land value tax (famously advocated by early political economist Henry George of San Francisco) does exactly this: you tax the unimproved portion of the value of property, and don't tax improvements. Land that has high value unimproved therefore costs money to sit idle; this encourages landlords to make improvements, rent out their space, etc. It also means landlords don't benefit from the portion of value that does…

It also has the added benefit of making productive investment (e.g. in a business) relatively more attractive than what many choose to do now - i.e. purchase property with the intention of capturing much of the value (in the form of capital gains) created by public investment.

A rentier economy is neither sustainable nor desirable.

Re: Even the Rich Are Being Priced Out of Central London

#197
post #19

And... this is what happens when you don't tax foreign cash infusions. For those who think we should get rid of taxes on cash repatriations - this is likely an outcome.

> And... this is what happens when you don't tax foreign cash infusions. Why would you do that?! It's basically free cash flowing into the local economy, it would be absurd to "tax it". Am I missing something?

They are purchasing land. Increases in land value tend be due to public investment. Much of the value created is captured by someone overseas (i.e. leaves the local economy).

Re: Even the Rich Are Being Priced Out of Central London

#198
post #68

I walked from Kings Cross to Marylebone at dusk recently - half way, I took the road up from the main Euston Road - walking through mostly residential - barely an apartment window with a light on - it's just money parked in property - the parks don't have kids playing in them any more The recent Vancouver tax changes have worked, I suspect/hope we'll start seeing that repeated in every city thats had it's life sucked…

I suspect it's a pretty common phenomenon. I recently visited Venice with a Venetian friend of mine. He mentioned that most of the apartments in the historical center were empty.

I think Venice is a unique situation. It's due to the difficulty and cost involved in the maintenance of buildings which are partially underwater and can not be accessed by a van or truck.

Fair amount of stubborn older people living their, not much ability for a young Italian to take on the task of buying a residence. I spent time there, in a house that reminded me of Fightclub, mostly with Iraqis. No Italians.

Re: Even the Rich Are Being Priced Out of Central London

#199
post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

hkmurakami made a very astute comment a few days ago about this: > It seems that we made a pact with the devil by positioning housing as an > investment asset. By doing so, we've encouraged people to commit a very large > fraction of their net worth into a rather illiquid asset, tying their financial > fates to the future assessment of that asset. As a result, protecting the price > and appreciation of this asset has…

It sounds like we're well balanced then. Markets are efficient.

public policy variables are outside the market efficiency hypotheisis because. markets are therfore not efficient wrt to public policy in general. they only are efficient with repsect to a specificially dilineated (analytically tractavle) public policy context at a single points of time.

Re: Even the Rich Are Being Priced Out of Central London

#200

The reason that housing is increasing in cost is because of a market failure where politics is used to create housing scarcity, called "economic rents." In this case, the use of politics to create zoning laws that place artificial restrictions on housing density. As in any form of "economic rents", this benefits a special interest group -- in this case the landlords over the general population of rents and buyers of…

The zoning story is pretty much bullshit and is told by developers that want to replace the buildings with even lower density, shittier but still pricier buildings.

The Eixample district in Catalonia has one of the highest population densities in the western world without high-rises: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eixample Its population density is higher than the one in Manhattan and probably also any parts of the other cities you listed. It didn't achieve that by ditching zoning laws.

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