Even the Rich Are Being Priced Out of Central London • Hacker News Board

Re: Even the Rich Are Being Priced Out of Central London

#151

Post by GFischer » Fri, Sep 02, 2016, 9:27 PM UTC

tome wrote: post #37

jandrese wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People dumping hundreds of millions into the market just to hide it from external forces aren't interested in being landlords.

They don't want to make a few percent on their capital?

There are people that behave in ways I considered pretty irrationaly with their capital... and they work out.

If they're getting an absurd percentage increase from property values alone, an extra few percent won't make a difference.

Not everyone min-maxes their capital. Governments probably end up eating them through inflation and taxes in the long run (but in the long run, we're all dead).

Re: Even the Rich Are Being Priced Out of Central London

#152

Post by wavefunction » Fri, Sep 02, 2016, 9:29 PM UTC

melling wrote: post #40

acjohnson55 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would we want to? I grew up in the Chicago suburban sprawl, and it feels like a tremendous waste of land and infrastructure. I hope we one day figure out how to reduce humanity's physical footprint. Agriculture would obviously be the biggest thing, but compacting living space would help too.

Well, you could limit cars in cities which wastes a lot of space. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-04-01/american-c... But then you need to answer my question: There must be some way to move large numbers of people over "great distances" (50-100 miles) in a more commutable time.

High-speed rail sounds like it could fit your needs, as long as you could somehow limit the number of stops along that distance that would need to be made, as the time-cost of slowing down, unloading and loading, and speeding back up would likely be the limiting factor in its efficiency and utility to the user.

Re: Even the Rich Are Being Priced Out of Central London

#153

Post by neffy » Fri, Sep 02, 2016, 9:32 PM UTC

mabbo wrote: post #83

PhasmaFelis wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does. Should Vancouver not act to protect its own citizens to the best of its ability, then?

The same logic works for all Protectionist legislation. Yet free trade has lowered the costs of nearly every good in our lives.

No it hasn't really.

Technological development has lowered the costs and availability of most things in our lives. If you look at the actual practices of governments and individuals over the last few centuries you won't find much truly free trade. You'll find all kinds of protectionism, exploits of positional control over markets, currency flows (I'm looking at you China), and the occasional super-power deciding to to have a war on ... well slavery was the one that mostly worked.

But free trade? Well, most countries agree that they should be allowed to freely export whatever they want... imports are another matter of course.

Re: Even the Rich Are Being Priced Out of Central London

#154

Post by sandworm101 » Fri, Sep 02, 2016, 9:33 PM UTC

Tiktaalik wrote: post #113

sandworm101 wrote: post #90

I'm shocked that london, vancouver, SF and a few other cities are still functional. When working lawyers and doctors can no longer afford to live in a city, what actually happens? Are these now theme parks? Retirement villages for the uber-wealthy? Some (SF, seattle) have developed this strange mix of the very very rich and the homeless on the street. Others (Vancouver) see inverted traffic patterns as more professio…

>Others (Vancouver) see inverted traffic patterns as more professionals (carps etc) drive into residential neighborhoods to work on houses than residents drive out. Suburbs are now industrial zones, places where people go to work. Anyone who can afford to live in the suburb, in a detached house, can live on investments alone. Do you have a source that more people are driving from the Vancouver core out than in? I wou…

They don\t commute from the core to the burbs. They move in from the hinterlands. People living in chilliwack, burnaby, Squamish and even further afield are commuting in. They are working on houses, on the industry that is every-rising house prices.

Watch the lions gate bridge or the upper levels highway on the north shore. Watch what rush hour is these days. The 7:30-8:30 rush across the bridge is barely a thing. Now it's thousands of pickup trucks driving into the burbs at around 6:30, ready to fire up tools come 7am.

Re: Even the Rich Are Being Priced Out of Central London

#155

Post by dagw » Fri, Sep 02, 2016, 9:39 PM UTC

mtkd wrote: post #68

I walked from Kings Cross to Marylebone at dusk recently - half way, I took the road up from the main Euston Road - walking through mostly residential - barely an apartment window with a light on - it's just money parked in property - the parks don't have kids playing in them any more The recent Vancouver tax changes have worked, I suspect/hope we'll start seeing that repeated in every city thats had it's life sucked…

On the other hand i recently walked through Notting Hill and South Kensington and it wad full of life, with all the flats and houses feeling very much lived in.

Re: Even the Rich Are Being Priced Out of Central London

#156

Post by ddalex » Fri, Sep 02, 2016, 9:48 PM UTC

randyrand wrote: post #150

ddalex wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't care. When you have billions in the personal bank accounts, the few tens of thousands you would collect per month from a luxury house in London means nothing. It would be more of a nuisance - the tenants need registering, then you have to pay taxes, for what gain?

A $5 million home rents for roughly $20k a month, or $240k a year.

Probably the owner of said home makes more money than that in his/her sleep.

Re: Even the Rich Are Being Priced Out of Central London

#157

Post by jlebar » Fri, Sep 02, 2016, 9:49 PM UTC

mtkd wrote: post #68

I walked from Kings Cross to Marylebone at dusk recently - half way, I took the road up from the main Euston Road - walking through mostly residential - barely an apartment window with a light on - it's just money parked in property - the parks don't have kids playing in them any more The recent Vancouver tax changes have worked, I suspect/hope we'll start seeing that repeated in every city thats had it's life sucked…

In the US, the federal government has acted in a big way to prop up home prices when they threatened to fall.

It's hard to imagine how we can have it both ways: If the government effectively insures real estate against loss, then investors (i.e., people with money) will take advantage of that, increase demand, and raise the price of the investments (i.e., houses you and I want to buy).

Re: Even the Rich Are Being Priced Out of Central London

#158

Post by aianus » Fri, Sep 02, 2016, 10:06 PM UTC

ethbro wrote: post #128

Tiktaalik wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Foreigners [not permanent residents] who buy residential property in the Vancouver area will have to pay an extra 15-per-cent tax as part of a B.C. government plan to slow the foreign speculation that many blame for making the region’s homes the most unaffordable in Canada." http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/bc-to-t... The tax is new and was enacted just before August so the impacts are still unce…

Is there a reason they didn't tax non-use? The "foreigner exclusion" sounds like fighting a symptom. Simply require proof of residency in the property (or an active lease agreement / market listing) to qualify for a tax break. Otherwise, if you're parking-and-holding-without-using, you get slapped with a higher tax rate.

> Is there a reason they didn't tax non-use?

That would be much more difficult to enforce. You'd have to hire people to walk around knocking on doors or have neighbours snitching on each other. No thanks.

Re: Even the Rich Are Being Priced Out of Central London

#159

Post by ryandrake » Fri, Sep 02, 2016, 10:10 PM UTC

The problem is not specific to foreign investors. Local investors are also more than capable of buying up perfectly good homes and letting them sit there vacant and unused. Whether the people are foreign has nothing to do with it. The problem is that society tolerates this practice of investors swallowing up housing, pricing people out of the market, and then leaving perfectly those good homes vacant.

Couldn't the solution be simply to enact a sufficiently punishing property tax rate on property not owner-occupied for more than 300 days of the year, so that these "investments" lose money? That would stop the practice, and maybe we'd see actual people/families moving in again.

Re: Even the Rich Are Being Priced Out of Central London

#160

Post by thruflo » Fri, Sep 02, 2016, 10:14 PM UTC

mtkd wrote: post #68

I walked from Kings Cross to Marylebone at dusk recently - half way, I took the road up from the main Euston Road - walking through mostly residential - barely an apartment window with a light on - it's just money parked in property - the parks don't have kids playing in them any more The recent Vancouver tax changes have worked, I suspect/hope we'll start seeing that repeated in every city thats had it's life sucked…

You were walking past student accommodation in the summer holidays.