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OpenBSD 6.0 released

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Re: OpenBSD 6.0 released

#121

Post by nickpsecurity »

nanolith wrote: post #105
nickpsecurity wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not true. You just use a compiler transformation. See this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12407156 Difference between memory safety and full, formal verification of correctness. You're describing the latter. Definitely check out Myreen et al's CakeML work, COGENT at NICTA, and AutoCorres/Simpl used in seL4. They might have stuff to speed up your own tool development. I wish you great luck on your projec…

Compiler transformation can solve most of these concerns, but it is not perfect due to undecidability. Compiler transformations will always be conservative, falling back on runtime enforcement. The main edge cases I've run into -- hence my need for building a tool like this -- is dealing with tight performance concerns found in realtime and embedded applications. Falling back to runtime enforcement is not an option,…

"is dealing with tight performance concerns found in realtime and embedded applications"

I thought tools like Astree and SPARK have knocked this out the park. Copilot was also pretty good on runtime side given it works in embedded. Just gotta structure your program to use the tools. I think they should cover plenty of use-cases given stuff like IRONSIDES DNS runs in SPARK.

"For general-purpose applications, of course, compiler transformation with runtime fallbacks is perfectly acceptable."

Also true for many embedded apps given the remaining runtime hit can range from single-digits to 40% depending on scheme used. Even more combined with something like SPARK or Astree for stronger, static analysis than the minimal stuff academics usually use. Certainly a subset will benefit from or even need methods you prefer but many won't. It's just management or a consumer's preference to save a few bucks shooting them in the foot. ;)

Do shoot me an email, though, in case I get some free time to run some ideas by you. I don't know enough formal methodists these days. My mile-high perspective can only let me do so much as a generalist. Gotta have specialists to help me filter the chaff from the wheat. Then pass such recommendations onto more specialists as always. :)

Re: OpenBSD 6.0 released

#122

Post by keithpeter »

cyphar wrote: post #120
keithpeter wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can recommend an offline install of Debian using the DVD1, DVD2 and DVD3 binary iso images. No need for an Internet connection. Depending on the software you wish to install, you will be swapping between the DVDs a few times (e.g. texlive/gnuplot/r-base). So far as I am aware, Debian is the only distribution that provides a fair chunk of the packages available in the (main) repository for effectively offline instal…

SLE (and RHEL) do too, and I think that openSUSE Leap does as well (but I don't think that it's visible from the main download page).

Thanks, I'll check the openSUSE Leap arrangements.

Re: OpenBSD 6.0 released

#123

Post by cyphar »

keithpeter wrote: post #122
cyphar wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SLE (and RHEL) do too, and I think that openSUSE Leap does as well (but I don't think that it's visible from the main download page).

Thanks, I'll check the openSUSE Leap arrangements.

Damn, I just double-checked and it looks that I was mistaken[1]. I'll send an email to opensuse-project@opensuse.org to see if there's a reason we can't produce ISOs like that. Since both SLE and openSUSE use OBS (the Open Build Service), it should be possible to publish those images without much issue.

[1]: http://download.opensuse.org/distribution/leap/42.1/iso/

Re: OpenBSD 6.0 released

#124

Post by clarry »

GTP wrote: post #55
anthk wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I install it from the ramdisk, much better.

How? How can you make a ramdisk resistant to a reboot?

You don't need to. It's created a-fresh for you when you boot bsd.rd. After you're done installing, you don't need the ramdisk as you'll boot your newly installed bsd kernel.

Re: OpenBSD 6.0 released

#125

Post by clarry »

aaron_m04 wrote: post #102
hackuser wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks. Though a knowledge worker sometimes does need to connect their laptop to a TV for collaboration and presentations. > The main problem is software that is outdated, unavailable, or buggy on non-Linux platforms What kinds of applications could you not find a good solution for?

> What kinds of applications could you not find a good solution for? * LibreOffice Writer (lowriter) had an annoying bug where it would sometimes take over a second to redraw the toolbar buttons, and the editor was unavailable during that time. This happened on save, resize, or unhiding the window. * Konsole's logic to identify the name of the foreground process would occasionally go into an infinite loop and all the…

I don't think it's crazy at all to stick with the fine WMs that ship with OpenBSD. Such as cwm. It's well supported.

Re: OpenBSD 6.0 released

#126

Post by clarry »

carapace wrote: post #92
hackuser wrote: post #89

This is a good opportunity to ask: Can anyone recommend a laptop I could put OpenBSD on and be fully functional for busy workdays (i.e., when I need to spend 100% of the day being a knowledge worker with a reliable tool I don't have to think about, and 0% being a sysadmin trying to get their tool to work)? On one hand I've seen threads on HN and Reddit saying how OpenBSD works flawlessly, esp. on various Thinkpads. O…

Same question, for desktop server/workstation?

If you don't need ridiculous performance, I can recommend the shuttle fanless mini PCs. I have a DS437 and a DS57U7. Both used to be desktops, now the former serves as a server.

I think there's a new one out now (DS67*), I haven't tried it yet. But I might buy one. Or wait for the next gen of intel CPUs.

http://dmesgd.nycbug.org/index.cgi?action=dmesgd&do=view&id=... http://dmesgd.nycbug.org/index.cgi?action=dmesgd&do=view&id=...

Note that I swapped the wlan card on one of these, for an Intel one. I don't know if the original card would've worked; I never tried it.

Re: OpenBSD 6.0 released

#127

Post by cyphar »

cyphar wrote: post #123
keithpeter wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks, I'll check the openSUSE Leap arrangements.

Damn, I just double-checked and it looks that I was mistaken[1]. I'll send an email to opensuse-project@opensuse.org to see if there's a reason we can't produce ISOs like that. Since both SLE and openSUSE use OBS (the Open Build Service), it should be possible to publish those images without much issue. [1]: http://download.opensuse.org/distribution/leap/42.1/iso/

Here's the thread: https://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-project/2016-09/msg00000...

Re: OpenBSD 6.0 released

#128

Post by GTP »

clarry wrote: post #124
GTP wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How? How can you make a ramdisk resistant to a reboot?

You don't need to. It's created a-fresh for you when you boot bsd.rd. After you're done installing, you don't need the ramdisk as you'll boot your newly installed bsd kernel.

Are you referring to the upgrade method described here [1]?

[1] https://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq4.html#bsd.rd

Re: OpenBSD 6.0 released

#129

Post by bigato »

aaron_m04 wrote: post #102
hackuser wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks. Though a knowledge worker sometimes does need to connect their laptop to a TV for collaboration and presentations. > The main problem is software that is outdated, unavailable, or buggy on non-Linux platforms What kinds of applications could you not find a good solution for?

> What kinds of applications could you not find a good solution for? * LibreOffice Writer (lowriter) had an annoying bug where it would sometimes take over a second to redraw the toolbar buttons, and the editor was unavailable during that time. This happened on save, resize, or unhiding the window. * Konsole's logic to identify the name of the foreground process would occasionally go into an infinite loop and all the…

dwm works just fine

Re: OpenBSD 6.0 released

#130

Post by bigato »

rjsw wrote: post #90
20yrs_no_equity wrote: post #69

I love BSD and would like to use it, but we're kinda in a Linux world. Question: If I am building a custom hardware device (and we will be in the future, I believe) can we run OpenBSD on it using the ARM port, but also invoke binaries created for linux? It appears that support was removed. In the near term I need to build for Linux, But eventually we'll be able to target our own hardware, and one of our toolchain ite…

Linux ARM binaries require the OS to map a page at the top of the address space that is shared between the kernel and userspace, you would need to check whether OpenBSD ever included this in their Linux emulation. The support for this isn't in NetBSD either but there has been a request to add it in order to run a Citrix app.

They removed Linux emulation support in 6.0.
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