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New cloud attack takes full control of virtual machines with little effort

arstechnica.com

41–50 of 105 posts

Re: New cloud attack takes full control of virtual machines with little effort

#41
post #40

Will rowhammer attacks work against ECC RAM? Multibit memory errors should be detected, even if they can't be corrected.

ECC is one of the mitigations, as well as increased refresh rate.

The 'best' solution is better ram: some vendors are more vulnerable than others.

Re: New cloud attack takes full control of virtual machines with little effort

#42
Ouch. Before reading this article I was seriously considering deploying a signing service as a HaLVM (Haskell) Xen PV unikernel running on EC2. The service would receive its private key after startup, such that the key never touches disk. Now I'm a lot less inclined to pretend that the Xen interface actually protects me...

Re: New cloud attack takes full control of virtual machines with little effort

#43

It seems the HN title and original title are both pretty wrong, at least according to the article content. The attack vector is really the ability to, if you have a known public key and a server using it, perform a pre-calculated bit flip such that the new public key is much easier to factor, and thus obtain a corresponding private key. So you're not obtaining original private keys, you're altering original public ke…

In the paper, they compromise not only the pgp key but also the Debian update server address, so all that is necessary is a software update to be compromised.

Re: New cloud attack takes full control of virtual machines with little effort

#44

This attack wouldn't work with [current versions] of ESXi since VMs now share pages only if the salt value and contents of the pages are identical (each VM uses a unique salt by default). https://kb.vmware.com/selfservice/microsites/search.do?langu...

Sharing pages seems a big price risk to pay for saving a little memory. Why not turn it off entirely?

There is still significant sharing that can be achieved inside a VM, plus, a lot of the sharing come from zero pages (full of 0) which is still performed accross VMs.

Another benefit of the salting mechanism is that it allows the administrator to define groups of VMs that are trusted in which sharing will be performed.

disclaimer: I work at VMware and wrote the salting code.

Re: New cloud attack takes full control of virtual machines with little effort

#45

The rowhammer "attack" is successful only because the hardware is just plain broken , and I consider it in the same category as things like a CPU which will calculate 1+1=3 if the computation of 1+1 is done enough times --- nothing software should even try to fix, because the problem is at a lower level. The solution is to demand that the hardware manufacturers make memory which actually works like memory should; and…

I don't agree, there is software that is designed to run on faulty hardware. This is often in high radiation environments (see: outer space). I agree this is not an area that much hardening has been done in conventional security models, but in other environments, it is common to use CRC error detection, parity information or other means to ensure that even if data is partially corrupted, that the original can be rest…

This does not make sense. If an attacker an alter your data, he can alter your CRC codes as well. Or just replace the pointer to the checkCRC function to "return true".

Re: New cloud attack takes full control of virtual machines with little effort

#46

Here's the crux of the memory issue from one of the link in the article: DDR memory is laid out in an array of rows and columns, which are assigned in large blocks to various applications and operating system resources. To protect the integrity and security of the entire system, each large chunk of memory is contained in a "sandbox" that can be accessed only by a given app or OS process. Bit flipping works when a hac…

So it doesn't allow reading any data? I'm most nervous about leaking private keys.

Re: New cloud attack takes full control of virtual machines with little effort

#47
post #34
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

cant you limit sharing to Read/eXecute pages only?

Isn't rowhammer done purely by read operations?

Yep. In DRAM, reads are destructive, so every time you read a row, you have to write that row back.

Re: New cloud attack takes full control of virtual machines with little effort

#48

This attack wouldn't work with [current versions] of ESXi since VMs now share pages only if the salt value and contents of the pages are identical (each VM uses a unique salt by default). https://kb.vmware.com/selfservice/microsites/search.do?langu...

How can VMs share a memory page at all with this scheme when the salt is unique to each VM? It sounds more like turning off inter-VM memory sharing...

Re: New cloud attack takes full control of virtual machines with little effort

#49
post #2

It is more costly, but this is a good reason to use a dedicated chunk of memory for every Xen PV domU. No oversubscription! Allowing multiple domU VMs on the same dom0 (or the equivalent in other hypervisor platforms) to re-use memory and balloon/contract memory on the fly is what enables this.

Can you point me to some services that provide, specifically, Xen PV VMs with non-oversubscribed memory?

I'm considering deploying a custom unikernel for protecting the private key data for my app[1], until I have enough money for a Hardware Security Module.

[1] http://security.stackexchange.com/questions/135457/penetrati...

Re: New cloud attack takes full control of virtual machines with little effort

#50
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sharing pages seems a big price risk to pay for saving a little memory. Why not turn it off entirely?

There is still significant sharing that can be achieved inside a VM, plus, a lot of the sharing come from zero pages (full of 0) which is still performed accross VMs. Another benefit of the salting mechanism is that it allows the administrator to define groups of VMs that are trusted in which sharing will be performed. disclaimer: I work at VMware and wrote the salting code.

Does the salting address the issue described in the dedup est machina paper? I noticed they did not mention that it worked against VMWare.
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