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I Saw the Crisis Coming. Why Didn’t the Fed?

nytimes.com

41–50 of 83 posts

Re: I Saw the Crisis Coming. Why Didn’t the Fed?

#41

The problem is, there are always a lot of people seeing a crash coming. The difficult part is telling if they are right or just being crackpots.

By definition, the people involved in the bubble believes the situation is sustainable. They HAVE to.

Its a herd phenomena, with a real price rise enforcing the belief in the trajectory of those price increases.

But at some point, despite all efforts to recruit more people into the bubbly market, price increases slow then stall and beliefs change and the down trend inevitably begins.

The naysayers, the non-believers, those darn negative people who don't buy in and reinforce the bubble but actively try to save their friends, will always be swimming against the tide.

The difficult part is distinguishing between social proof and actual facts.

The fact is that most of us are followers and that will always be the case. That's how we're wired. If it weren't, societies wouldn't even be possible.

The best we can hope for is to keep the use of force out of the equation. We were all forced to take on the risks of all that lending, something we would not have done voluntarily.

Now we are on the hook for it and some day we will realize how truly costly it has been.

Til then, feel free to think of me as a crackpot.

Re: I Saw the Crisis Coming. Why Didn’t the Fed?

#42
Most people could have predicted it and many people did. This includes not only people like Mike Burry, George Soros and others that made money out of the whole mess, but also those bastards in Goldman Sachs who after touting and selling housing debt derivatives for the entire bubble ended up being short on housing just when the bubble burst.

Multiple people in academia predicted the crash. Nouriel Roubini (spelling is wrong) Peter Schif, every economist that ever posted on Counterpunch, etc.

And also of course most ordinary people predicted it. If you look at the housing forums on the Internet from about 3 to 4 years ago you will see that most people were sure there would be a crash and only people that were already deeply invested in real estate were trying to think of ever more creative ways to deny it.

So Greenspan's statements speak more about him than the actual reality. He and the Bush government just surrounded themselves with economists from one very narrow school of thought and did not listen to anyone else. It is not that people did not predict the recession, it is that Greenspan would not listen to anyone who predicted it, therefore nobody that he bothered to listen to predicted it.

Re: I Saw the Crisis Coming. Why Didn’t the Fed?

#43
post #9

Check out "Peter Schiff was right" video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2I0QN-FYkpw Now, talk about "nobody could have predicted this" (c) Obama

Yes, Peter Schiff was probably the most prolific person on warning about the impending crisis. However, despite how smart he is, when the crisis finally came, his portfolios (precious metals,short US$) got hit very hard, for a short period of time.

Re: I Saw the Crisis Coming. Why Didn’t the Fed?

#44
post #33

The only time Greenspan could have meaningfully intervened was back in 2002 or earlier, and even then intervention would have caused enough pain to have the media deem it a "crisis" in itself. Notably he did speak up about Fannie and Freddie in the early 2000s but was silenced by the GOP's drive to make war -- nobody wanted the economy cooled at all when gas prices were already creeping up. So what's the man to do no…

> Notably he did speak up about Fannie and Freddie in the early 2000s but was silenced by the GOP's drive to make war Wrong. Fannie and Freddie were protected by Dems, not Repubs. Mccain got his teeth kicked in over this one. Interestingly enough, Fannie and Freddie execs during that time were largely Dems, most of whom who landed in the Obama administration. While at Fannie and Freddie, they took out millions. Oh, a…

Everything you say is accurate except the insinuation that Democrats are mostly at fault. George W. Bush was in office for the worst of it, and he spent his political capital trying to convince people that a war was necessary.

He spent 99% of his political capital on war and at best 1% on everything else. He was far from powerless, having control of both houses of congress. The fact is he was perfectly fine with the GSEs being someone else's problem so nobody would get distracted away from the "war".

Incidentally the GSEs were taken off government books in order to make the budget look better so we could "afford" the Vietnam war.

Re: I Saw the Crisis Coming. Why Didn’t the Fed?

#45

Audit the fed: http://www.auditthefed.com/ Whereas: Congress, the Federal Reserve, and the U.S. Treasury have put the American taxpayer on the hook for over $12 trillion in bailouts and loans; and Whereas: Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke recently refused to tell Congress who has received trillions in these funds from the Federal Reserve; and Whereas: Allowing the Fed to operate our nation's monetary system in a…

The banks paid TARP back, with interest. That means the taxpayers made money.

Re: I Saw the Crisis Coming. Why Didn’t the Fed?

#46
post #30

The problem is: Greenspan may very well be right in his assessment that Burry may just have been 'a supremely lucky flipper of coins'. There are thousands of people in similar positions making predictions about all kinds of phenomena. Whatever the outcome, there are always a number of predictions that are 'uncannily' close to that outcome. Unfortunately, these 'correct' predictions are only seldomly made by the same…

I think that Burry is simply arguing that the methods he and other shorts used to call this crisis (which Taleb refers to as a gray swan -- since so many called it) should be more closely examined, rather than being simply dismissed as statistical aberrations. Maybe investors/wall street can learn a useful thing or two from them. To me, spotting bubbles is not so difficult. There are a few great investors who have ex…

Figuring out the "when" is definitely the most difficult part. I had been watching the markets and the housing bubble very carefully for years before the crisis finally arrived. It is so amazing how long these things take to play out, and how distorted the markets can get before they finally snap.

Despite the attention I paid to it, I still failed to make a profit. When things finally started unravelling, I took several put option positions (assuming the price would decrease) in the obviously doomed companies, for really cheap prices. But my mistake was not goibg out further time wise. I was up substantially (500% was my best) in almost all my positions within a week or two, but when the fed and other players weighed in with changes to the rules of the stock market, and CEO's taking actions that are blatently fraudulent but not enforced by the SEC, things turned against me and I ended up selling for a 40% loss. Of course if I had simply taken a boring short position I could have made a guaranteed 40-60 percent, but how exciting is that?? :)

Making money in the market, even when you KNOW what is going to happen, is amazingly hard. Especially when the FED and SEC are literally changing the rules on a daily basis, as they were back then, and when CEO's can lie, cheat, and steal with impunity.

Re: I Saw the Crisis Coming. Why Didn’t the Fed?

#47
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that Burry is simply arguing that the methods he and other shorts used to call this crisis (which Taleb refers to as a gray swan -- since so many called it) should be more closely examined, rather than being simply dismissed as statistical aberrations. Maybe investors/wall street can learn a useful thing or two from them. To me, spotting bubbles is not so difficult. There are a few great investors who have ex…

Figuring out the "when" is definitely the most difficult part. I had been watching the markets and the housing bubble very carefully for years before the crisis finally arrived. It is so amazing how long these things take to play out, and how distorted the markets can get before they finally snap. Despite the attention I paid to it, I still failed to make a profit. When things finally started unravelling, I took seve…

For ordinary investors, the housing bubble was a tricky thing to play.

There were two public companies that had CDS portfolios where they stood to make a lot of money. A direct equity investment or LEAPS would have worked well there. I took this approach.

Alternatively, it seems like out the money puts on financial institutions would have done really well. Michael Lewis chronicles a few guys from Cornwall Capital that made something like 100:1 payouts on out the money puts for Bear Stearns. These guys crushed it when Bear went BK. This cheap insurance approach is used by a few really well known investors and it is the one I'm gravitating towards for the future.

Re: I Saw the Crisis Coming. Why Didn’t the Fed?

#48

The problem is: Greenspan may very well be right in his assessment that Burry may just have been 'a supremely lucky flipper of coins'. There are thousands of people in similar positions making predictions about all kinds of phenomena. Whatever the outcome, there are always a number of predictions that are 'uncannily' close to that outcome. Unfortunately, these 'correct' predictions are only seldomly made by the same…

Not true. Peter Schiff did predict collapse in Housing as well as in nasdaq. Now he predicts USD collapsing due to the US gov. defaulting on its debt or hyperinflating the currency to get rid of the debt.

You see Housing Bubble was just a single dot. You don't understand anything, if you understand just housing bubble. US is totally indebted and lived from a bubble to another bubble. The last bubble (current) is US debt.

Marc Faber, Jim Rogers, Peter Schiff predicted this crisis, nasdaq crisis and other. if you understand economics and sound money (i.e. GOLD), then these weren't surprises for you. The whole Austrian School of Economics has been predicting this mess for years. Any decent economist understands that USD is finished. US accumulated the biggest amount of debt in the history of the world. With no production... you don't need to be a genius to see that the only thing left for them is to print money. If printed money goes to stock, you got nasdaq bubble. If printed money goes to real estate you got housing bubble. If printed money goes to Treasuries - you get Government Debt bubble. Once this one bursts, no one will lend any more money to the US and this will mean hyperinflation. Turn off TV, turn on brain, buy gold.

Re: I Saw the Crisis Coming. Why Didn’t the Fed?

#49

The problem is: Greenspan may very well be right in his assessment that Burry may just have been 'a supremely lucky flipper of coins'. There are thousands of people in similar positions making predictions about all kinds of phenomena. Whatever the outcome, there are always a number of predictions that are 'uncannily' close to that outcome. Unfortunately, these 'correct' predictions are only seldomly made by the same…

Saying someone was just a "supremely lucky flipper of coins" always seems like a cop out to me. It's not so much the fact that he was right but the reasons he gives for being right. He gives very good explanations for his reasoning and it was sound. Explain how his reasoning was not sound and then you can make statements about how he was just "super lucky." Otherwise you're just guessing about how lucky he is and that doesn't really help anyone.

Re: I Saw the Crisis Coming. Why Didn’t the Fed?

#50
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1.) 'Crackpots' labeling is an easy way for corporate mass media to label the truth tellers to discourage you from researching further (If you look at 2005-2007 CNBC interviews, they called alot of these people 'crackpots') 2.) Most of the time these 'truth tellers' are way early in their calls. It's up you to look at the numbers/charts and figure out when the said phenomenom should occur.

1) 'Crackpot' labeling is also an easy way to label the crackpots, to discourage you from wasting your life either believing nonsense or trying to argue against it. It is not worth my time to do independent research on the question of whether the Americans actually landed on the moon. 2) You know what they say about broken clocks and being right. Someone who is always predicting a collapse will successfully predict a…

Many of the people predicting this collapse were "new players" to the market, not people always predicting collapses. Take the guy who runs seattlebubble.com. He's an ordinary guy who wanted to buy a house, realized prices were really high compared to his expectations, and started digging deeper. He hadn't predicted any past collapses of anything, he just realized that housing costs were unsustainably high and called it. Many of the other bubble-predictors were in the same boat.

The guys always predicting collapses are crackpots. The normal people who called this bubble because they realized house prices had jumped without corresponding changes in income or demographics, but only changes in bank lending standards, were not crackpots.

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