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Ask YC: Learning Web Development, were should I start?

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Re: Ask YC: Learning Web Development, were should I start?

#31

Post by bprater »

Blah, blah, blah. I think most of these recommendations are from 15-year-olds who just read about a cool web framework and are now spouting how damn good it is.

Anyone recommending a framework before someone understands web programming isn't someone I would hire. Frameworks are where you go when you finally get what is missing with your web programming language. It might take you years to get to that point.

Go with PHP. Period. People are going to blah, blah, blah about how PHP gives you bad habits, has bad function naming, ran off with their kid sister, whatever. PHP is a mess but it works. Name a webpage .php and you are good to get going. Try that with Ruby.

PHP is a tool that gets the job done and let's you quickly become immersed in web programming. If you don't know your GET from your POST, a great Ruby framework ain't gonna help you.

Once you get PHP figured out (and now are employable as a programmer?), try Python or Ruby out. They are gorgeous, elegant languages. I love using both of them. Then slap a great framework like Django or Merb on top. You'll love it.

But only after you get the basics down. I'm ashamed at you guys, really.

Re: Ask YC: Learning Web Development, were should I start?

#32

Post by german »

aaroniba wrote: post #30
german wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks a lot, you really understood my problem :) I don't want to learn PHP, now I have to decide if it's going to be Python or Ruby. Can you please point me some of the information sources you used. Thanks again.

Out of curiosity, why don't you want to learn PHP?

Because I've seen PHP code and it looks too messy for me. Just my opinion.

Re: Ask YC: Learning Web Development, were should I start?

#33

Post by hernan7 »

iamelgringo wrote: post #8

I had a similar issue a year or so ago. I tried to jump right in to a web framework, but I ran into a few problems. Like so much in the technology world, web frameworks grew in response to a certain set of problems. If you dive into web frameworks without having a least a rudimentary understanding of the problems that are being solved, you'll end up puzzled more often than not. So, when I picked up a bunch of Rails b…

+1 to write a couple of CGI scripts to get a feel for how pages are actually put together by the framework.

My personal experience is with Perl and Java, both of which are going the way of the dodo, or so it seems. So, I can't recommend any of them in good conscience.

But, whatever language you learn, I would first take some time to write some basic non-web programs. Once you are familiar with the basics of the language (variables, flow control, arrays, hash tables, etc.) then I would write some CGI-based web forms. That would give you an idea of how the basic functionality of a web site is chiseled from the primordial silicon.

Then, when you pick a framework you will know what is being abstracted and what parts of the web programming tasks are being streamlined.

Re: Ask YC: Learning Web Development, were should I start?

#34

Post by mikesabat »

This seems to be the most asked question on YC, by far. This may be impossible (which would explain why it doesn't exist) but can someone put together the quickstart guide "Learning to Web Develop"?

1-2 page exec summaries of popular languages and the specific problems they solve. Include links to resources that explain things further. It would help to get a snapshot from 1000 ft. above the situation.

There is definitely a need here.

Thanks

Re: Ask YC: Learning Web Development, were should I start?

#35

Post by edw519 »

bprater wrote: post #31

Blah, blah, blah. I think most of these recommendations are from 15-year-olds who just read about a cool web framework and are now spouting how damn good it is. Anyone recommending a framework before someone understands web programming isn't someone I would hire. Frameworks are where you go when you finally get what is missing with your web programming language. It might take you years to get to that point. Go with P…

+1 for content.

-1 for attitude.

We're even.

Re: Ask YC: Learning Web Development, were should I start?

#36

Post by tel »

mrtron wrote: post #20
nickb wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. Rails is currently the way to go. It's much more mature than Django and has more flexibility and more mature gems/plugins. Lynda tutorials are great. I'd also recommend free ones: http://railscasts.com/ http://www.akitaonrails.com/2008/2/1/rolling-with-rails-2-0-... And for-pay ones at http://www.peepcode.com Also, grab "The Rails Way" book by Obie Fernandez (it's THE BEST book on Rails.. when you learn the…

Rails is much more mature than Django? Please provide some sort of evidence surrounding that, instead of stating it as fact. First, let's start with the languages they are based on, since performance and scalability depends on this. Do you feel Ruby is more mature than Python too?

For applications launching soon it's worth noting that Django is in a period of flux at the moment. Ver 1.0 is being actively worked toward and will break backwards compatibility.

I mean, no one is keeping you from working using Django .96, but several of the neater features in the platform (ContentTypes & Generic relations) are a little sketchy at the moment.

Re: Ask YC: Learning Web Development, were should I start?

#37

Post by tel »

bprater wrote: post #31

Blah, blah, blah. I think most of these recommendations are from 15-year-olds who just read about a cool web framework and are now spouting how damn good it is. Anyone recommending a framework before someone understands web programming isn't someone I would hire. Frameworks are where you go when you finally get what is missing with your web programming language. It might take you years to get to that point. Go with P…

You already called this argument, but...

... if you can avoid PHP. It will do all those things mentioned above, and more and more Python and Ruby are becoming common.

Re: Ask YC: Learning Web Development, were should I start?

#38

Post by cjlesh »

If you want to give Django a try, you might want to check out my simple tutorial:

http://www.instantdjango.com

It includes a portable Django development environment for Windows, no installation required, and it even runs from a USB thumb drive. The tutorial walks you through creating a simple website, and explains what is happening each step of the way.

The website is overdue for some updates, and I really need to finish writing the second chapter, but you might find it an interesting way to spend 45 minutes.

Re: Ask YC: Learning Web Development, were should I start?

#40

Post by cdr »

sgoraya wrote: post #28
iamelgringo wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, if you're going to make a serious study of the subject, I'd suggest an O'Reilly Safari subscription. For $15 a month, you get access to 10 books at a time. For $40 a month, you get access to their entire library. I'm not a shill for the service, I just really like the service. It's well worth the cash. Online tutorials are good for a quick, down and dirty overview of a topic. But, if you're going to learn s…

Agreed - I would also recommend taking a class or two if you have the time. Decent community colleges will have many courses for web development ranging from beginner to intermediate. Studying and learning in a classroom environment has many benefits - Who knows, you might meet a few new friends and like minded folks as well! Good Luck! (PS: In the Bay area, foothill college is great, IMHO, for continued education)

Also, if you're taking classes, you may have free access to Safari and other ebook collections through the school's library.
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