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Graduate Students, the Laborers of Academia

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Re: Graduate Students, the Laborers of Academia

#91
post #11

I've always thought that PhD students should band together and refuse to run experiments for one week. The shock that might have on the current academic system, when administrators, managers, supervisors and project leaders start to realise that their careers depend on a constant supply of dependent serfs might shake things up.

There is no shortage of delusional people eager to sign up for this kind of serfdom.

True about the serfdom, but the students aren't necessarily delusional.

The US takes 1.2 million immigrants a year, but it is extremely difficult to gain admission as a random applicant without family connections.

One possible way for in is graduate degrees in STEM fields. There are various work visa programs that are far easier to access through STEM graduate school in the US. You can get here on a student visa, gain some connections, interview on campus, and perhaps get a work visa through a tech employer - and this is easier with a grad degree, as those degrees grant certain exemptions from visa caps. If you remain in the good graces of your employer or university, you may eventually qualify for a green card.

It's a slog, but keep in mind, we're not talking about people with freedom of choice here. It might be more rational to sell real estate, open a sandwich shop, or become a dental hygienist if you were allowed to do so legally without fear of deportation.

But if your options are very limited due to visa and immigration restrictions? Sure, it can be highly rational to pursue a graduate degree in a narrow subsection of STEM fields. Unfortunately, as long as universities have this power, they probably won't have much incentive to make the degrees rational for people with the freedom to choose their careers.

Re: Graduate Students, the Laborers of Academia

#92

it should be written as "Cheap Labor". I can vouch this as I went to graduate school where I worked for 5 years at 8-10 hours/day including Saturday and Sunday for $12,000/year to get a PhD in Biological Science. And it was in one of the most expensive state in US. So could not afford to start a family because of perpetual state of sharing apartment and not enough money and time to go out and find a partner. And at t…

I can vouch this as I went to graduate school where I worked for 5 years at 8-10 hours/day including Saturday and Sunday for $12,000/year to get a PhD Well, then don't do your PhD in the US. I did my PhD in the Netherlands, had a reasonable salary and a good work-life balance. I now work as a habilitant in Germany (roughly the equivalent of an assistant professor), it's the same: good salary, good balance. The primar…

Yea, it is easy when you are single and are from Europe or US. But for somebody like me who has lot of limitation like ailing parents at home, siblings to take care of and immigration issues then it gets difficult to get out of country. And sometimes you do not know that you are in a deep rabit hole unless you are 2-3 years down there. Then you realize you just grind your nose on ground for 2-3 more years and get done with it rather looking for somewhere better to start from 0.

Re: Graduate Students, the Laborers of Academia

#93
post #3

Glad the NLRB gave decision in favor of the student unions. Though it is true that unionization in universities "would threaten to undermine the primary relationship, that of student to professor, advisee to mentor" , the grad students wouldn't have had to do this if the private universities with billions of dollars in endowments refused to provide basic and reasonable incentives. NYU, for example only recently incre…

A barely-adequate salary for a BS in CS in some rather awful location is 50K. The _top end_ salaries for grad students are about 30K nationally. Most are in the 15-20K range. Many times, grad students can qualify for food stamps and other forms of welfare.

I would suggest that "professional median salary for holder of degree with 0-3 years experience" is the rubric that should be applied for compensation. More for relevant experience.

Of course, that would entirely shatter the entire US academic system, since it is, today, built on the backs of grad students working in penury (often having a blast, it must be said). The entire current system is built around VERY cheap willing labor.

a remark: grad students working for nil and startup employees working for nil have a facially similar appearance. The difference is the startup employees should have some fat options to compensate. The grad students don't have any upside...

Re: Graduate Students, the Laborers of Academia

#94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of the time, a university will raise money for the stadium via private money and revenue bonds. So none of your tuition goes to funding the stadium, although the university likely doesn't profit. Real estate and businesses have a vibrant financial market, so you don't necessarily need large figures to participate. You're not going to raise $100 million in revenue bonds for a professor to study sea slugs, becaus…

Exactly. And to piggyback on your comment, modern academic science is the way it is because their "investors" (i.e. granting institutions like NSF) have certain stipulations for grant funds or at the very least prefer certain applications over others. Applications that have some aspect dealing with STEM education, for example, are incredibly popular with NSF and other institutions at the moment. When you talk to rese…

The outreach stuff itself isn't that bad, and it can be fun to see a bunch of 'civilians' get excited about a topic that you yourself care deeply about. It is frustrating that you need to shoehorn it into all sorts of proposals where it doesn't make a ton of sense: Why is the funding for a bunch of PhDs to study A linked to their willingness to explain B to a bunch of K-12 students?

On the other hand, the administrative stuff (writing your own grants, reviewing other people's papers and grants, and getting things like purchase orders and experiment approval through the university) takes a huge amount of time and is fantastically unrewarding.

Re: Graduate Students, the Laborers of Academia

#95

it should be written as "Cheap Labor". I can vouch this as I went to graduate school where I worked for 5 years at 8-10 hours/day including Saturday and Sunday for $12,000/year to get a PhD in Biological Science. And it was in one of the most expensive state in US. So could not afford to start a family because of perpetual state of sharing apartment and not enough money and time to go out and find a partner. And at t…

The fundamental principle about doing science has changed. It has come from becoming a true scientist(born with natural curiosity towards natures, physics, understanding and exploring fundamentals principles of physics, life and matter) to bread butter scientist where you are pigeon holed into a cubicle writing grants all day and tinkering a very narrow part of a huge field to collect as much data possible so that yo…

That's because science was largely a pastime for indepently wealthy members their societies' elites. Science hasn't changed; middle class people just have access to it now.

Re: Graduate Students, the Laborers of Academia

#96

At the University of Oregon it seems almost a yearly occurrence that grad students strike, usually a week or two before finals need to be graded. I'm apathetic to the ordeal because whether its administrators, professors, or grad students, getting payed, I'm still stuck paying an egregious tuition. That said in every department except for the Math department both professors and GTFs (graduate-teaching-fellows) have b…

Egregious? http://financialaid.oregonstate.edu/review_costofattendance

Egregious. http://www.collegedata.com/cs/data/college/college_pg03_tmpl...

Re: Graduate Students, the Laborers of Academia

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Egregious? http://financialaid.oregonstate.edu/review_costofattendance

Egregious. http://www.collegedata.com/cs/data/college/college_pg03_tmpl...

Sorry. I got the wrong Oregon.

They're priced about the same, though, it seems to me. I'm left wondering what you think a reasonable price is. Unless you're from out of state. Those prices are could very well more than the education is worth.

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