Live data from Hacker News

I Saw the Crisis Coming. Why Didn’t the Fed?

nytimes.com

11–20 of 83 posts

Re: I Saw the Crisis Coming. Why Didn’t the Fed?

#11
The only time Greenspan could have meaningfully intervened was back in 2002 or earlier, and even then intervention would have caused enough pain to have the media deem it a "crisis" in itself.

Notably he did speak up about Fannie and Freddie in the early 2000s but was silenced by the GOP's drive to make war -- nobody wanted the economy cooled at all when gas prices were already creeping up.

So what's the man to do now? He could admit all that about the war and cast serious doubt on the Fed's independence and the US financial system, or he could insist that the boom/bust was a complete and total mystery.

In his last book he goes to great pains to marvel at seemingly impossible "risk adjusted rates of return" throughout a variety of markets, but concludes that in the case of housing it's still "froth" and not a bubble. Since the bubble hadn't become obvious at the time of the book's publication, what else would he say?

But more practically, we should all realize that if housing prices had dipped about 1-2% less than they did, most of the damage would not have occurred. Our institutions (banks, etc.) were calibrated to handle some amount of systemic risk, but not as much as it turned out they should have.

Hindsight is 20/20 and Burry may have been extra prescient, but like any bettor he could have been wrong. Since he had no additional information than the rest of the market, we can conclude that the rest were all sheep (or idiots) or that there was actually some -- gasp -- chance going on.

The difference is that the majority of people, institutions, etc., misjudged just how much calamity would be caused by price deviations that they calculated to be highly improbable.

Re: I Saw the Crisis Coming. Why Didn’t the Fed?

#12
There's an old saying: Academic economists have successfully predicted nine of the last five major recessions.

That is: One possible answer to the question in the title is: "Because actually the available information didn't make it clear what would happen and when; you thought it did, but actually you just got lucky."

Whether that's actually the case here is of course difficult to tell. On the one hand, hindsight bias (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindsight_bias) makes it likely that it won't feel like it is, even if it is. On the other hand, uh, it does indeed feel like the crisis was pretty predictable. (But I bet that most people who are now saying "well, that was hardly surprising" failed, just as FWIW I failed, to short the market heavily or anything. Not-being-surprised is cheap.)

Re: I Saw the Crisis Coming. Why Didn’t the Fed?

#13
"Everybody missed it. Academia, the Federal Reserve, all regulators." - Alan Greenspan

That is complete bullshit. Try telling that to Paulson, who made billions on the crash. I saw the signs myself, but did not understand them, not believing that people like Greenspan would allow something so stupid to take place. When studies show that Americans trust their government less than ever, mark me down as a statistic.

When a bank official told me that "jobless, bankrupt, illegal immigrant, it doesn't matter," they can get somone a home loan, I should have known what that meant, and so should the Fed.

Greenspan should just shut up and accept his legacy.

Re: I Saw the Crisis Coming. Why Didn’t the Fed?

#14

The problem is, there are always a lot of people seeing a crash coming. The difficult part is telling if they are right or just being crackpots.

1.) 'Crackpots' labeling is an easy way for corporate mass media to label the truth tellers to discourage you from researching further (If you look at 2005-2007 CNBC interviews, they called alot of these people 'crackpots') 2.) Most of the time these 'truth tellers' are way early in their calls. It's up you to look at the numbers/charts and figure out when the said phenomenom should occur.

Re: I Saw the Crisis Coming. Why Didn’t the Fed?

#16
post #4

"Mr. Greenspan said that he sat through innumerable meetings at the Fed with crack economists, and not one of them warned of the problems that were to come. By Mr. Greenspan’s logic, anyone who might have foreseen the housing bubble would have been invited into the ivory tower, so if all those who were there did not hear it, then no one could have said it. As a nation, we cannot afford to live with Mr. Greenspan’s wa…

Will a Bursting Bubble Trouble Bernanke?: The Evidence for a Housing Bubble

November 2005, Dean Baker and David Rosnick

http://www.cepr.net/index.php/publications/reports/will-a-bu...

(Baker has papers going back to Oct 2003 on it)

Re: I Saw the Crisis Coming. Why Didn’t the Fed?

#17

The problem is, there are always a lot of people seeing a crash coming. The difficult part is telling if they are right or just being crackpots.

1.) 'Crackpots' labeling is an easy way for corporate mass media to label the truth tellers to discourage you from researching further (If you look at 2005-2007 CNBC interviews, they called alot of these people 'crackpots') 2.) Most of the time these 'truth tellers' are way early in their calls. It's up you to look at the numbers/charts and figure out when the said phenomenom should occur.

1) 'Crackpot' labeling is also an easy way to label the crackpots, to discourage you from wasting your life either believing nonsense or trying to argue against it. It is not worth my time to do independent research on the question of whether the Americans actually landed on the moon.

2) You know what they say about broken clocks and being right. Someone who is always predicting a collapse will successfully predict any collapse.

Re: I Saw the Crisis Coming. Why Didn’t the Fed?

#19

The problem is, there are always a lot of people seeing a crash coming. The difficult part is telling if they are right or just being crackpots.

1.) 'Crackpots' labeling is an easy way for corporate mass media to label the truth tellers to discourage you from researching further (If you look at 2005-2007 CNBC interviews, they called alot of these people 'crackpots') 2.) Most of the time these 'truth tellers' are way early in their calls. It's up you to look at the numbers/charts and figure out when the said phenomenom should occur.

Unfortunately there are also real crackpots, and they all claim to be marginalized by the establishment. If I have to look at the numbers and charts and figure it out myself, then I would rather also find the data myself. Then I avoid getting data that is doctored or otherwise deceiving.

That said, it is often worth paying attention to those who are a little bit outside the mainstream. That goes especially in economics, which is far from an exact science, and is full of political agendas.

Re: I Saw the Crisis Coming. Why Didn’t the Fed?

#20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1.) 'Crackpots' labeling is an easy way for corporate mass media to label the truth tellers to discourage you from researching further (If you look at 2005-2007 CNBC interviews, they called alot of these people 'crackpots') 2.) Most of the time these 'truth tellers' are way early in their calls. It's up you to look at the numbers/charts and figure out when the said phenomenom should occur.

Unfortunately there are also real crackpots, and they all claim to be marginalized by the establishment. If I have to look at the numbers and charts and figure it out myself, then I would rather also find the data myself. Then I avoid getting data that is doctored or otherwise deceiving. That said, it is often worth paying attention to those who are a little bit outside the mainstream. That goes especially in economi…

Agreed; you put it better than I did :)
Post reply on HN