Graduate Students, the Laborers of Academia • Hacker News Board

Re: Graduate Students, the Laborers of Academia

#71

Post by semi-extrinsic » Thu, Sep 01, 2016, 10:01 AM UTC

dragandj wrote: post #69

killaken2000 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you an American citizen and did you know the language before you went. I would be interested to know what the process was to move from the US to the Netherlands for a PhD.

Most PhDs in Netherlands accept English speakers, and they all have many international students. When you find a position advertized, you can ask them about the procedure for non-EU citizens.

This is also true for Scandinavian countries (and trivially true for the UK). I would guess most of Europe, really. But you probably need to learn a small bit of the local language just to shop for groceries etc.

The country I would be most hesitant about is France, they really don't like speaking English, and most French PhD theses are still written in French. This is really idiotic, all it does is slow down the dissemination of research; some acquaintances who did their PhD in France were looking hard for a non-French external examiner of their PhD, which is the easiest loophole if you want to write the thesis in English.

Re: Graduate Students, the Laborers of Academia

#72

Post by _lpa_ » Thu, Sep 01, 2016, 10:09 AM UTC

I haven't regretted doing my PhD in the slightest. I've learned a huge amount, in a wide variety of areas. However, the system in the UK is a bit more favourable regarding funding. Having said that, the funding doesn't scale with location. I live in one of the most expensive cities in the UK (outside London), and am funded to the same level as everyone else outside of London.

The bigger problem I have is in deciding to leave academia. There are still questions I would like to know the answer to (and I expect there always would be). It just doesn't seem to make sense to take that path. Low pay, high competition, and the likelihood of being on a series of 18month contracts for the majority of your career. Indeed, in my specific field (Bioinformatics) the career path isn't even that well defined, and you can more easily get a job at a software company who will pay several multiple of what you could expect as a postdoc. It just doesn't make sense to do it.

Re: Graduate Students, the Laborers of Academia

#73

Post by dalke » Thu, Sep 01, 2016, 10:13 AM UTC

harryh wrote: post #34

makecheck wrote: post #30

A couple of anecdotes that really drive me crazy. One, the amount of money universities can shovel at athletics is insane . It cannot be justified, I don’t care how many reasons you come up with. They pay millions to build stadiums, pay coaches, etc. while throwing chump change at people doing academic work. I have also seen hundreds of thousands of dollars thrown at things like ugly artwork and statues. Two, the “ch…

At least for schools with successful football or men's basketball teams athletics are generally run as basically break even programs. The money brought in by those two sports funds everything else. And that doesn't even take into account the large alumni donations that big time sports programs can bring to a school. Here, for example, is the University of Michigan 2015 budget (the first one I found googling): https:/…

http://projects.huffingtonpost.com/ncaa/sports-at-any-cost , posted to HN 9 months ago at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10572373 shows that may programs are not breaking even, but are subsidized, and often from student fees.

They have a summary of the subsidizes at http://projects.huffingtonpost.com/projects/ncaa/subsidy-sco... . I counted 49 with minimal subsidy (0 to 25%) out of 204 schools. U. Mich. is one of those 49.

Re: Graduate Students, the Laborers of Academia

#74

Post by dalke » Thu, Sep 01, 2016, 10:18 AM UTC

ikeyany wrote: post #56

harryh wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least for schools with successful football or men's basketball teams athletics are generally run as basically break even programs. The money brought in by those two sports funds everything else. And that doesn't even take into account the large alumni donations that big time sports programs can bring to a school. Here, for example, is the University of Michigan 2015 budget (the first one I found googling): https:/…

Schools like Michigan are the exception. Try Oregon State, or UNLV, or a school not known for resounding success in several sports.

Oregon State - 24% subsidized sports program - http://projects.huffingtonpost.com/projects/ncaa/subsidy-sco... .

UNLV - 55% subsidized - http://projects.huffingtonpost.com/projects/ncaa/subsidy-sco... .

Then there's Eastern Michigan University, 83% subsidized (at $24M/year) - http://projects.huffingtonpost.com/projects/ncaa/subsidy-sco... . With 13K undergrads, that's $2,000/student/year.

That report points out that some 3/4ths of school have a 25% or more subsidy on their programs.

Re: Graduate Students, the Laborers of Academia

#75

Post by chrisbennet » Thu, Sep 01, 2016, 11:16 AM UTC

Question: How can it possibly be illegal to get together with others to bargain? What is the rationale?

If I and my fellow students/etc want to boycott something, compare notes on pay, share legal actions, or protest shouldn't that be protected by law?

I'm not a fan of unions or political parties but it blows my mind that the legality of organizing with others is even a question.

Re: Graduate Students, the Laborers of Academia

#76

Post by yodsanklai » Thu, Sep 01, 2016, 11:46 AM UTC

killaken2000 wrote: post #67

ThePhysicist wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same experience here: I did my PhD in France at a good research institute (CEA Saclay). The supervision was great as I was one of only three PhD students in a group of ten permanent researchers, so I could work with my supervisors every day. There was also a strong focus to keep within the three-year schedule, and a lot of opportunities to visit conferences and the like. In addition, a PhD is highly valued by compani…

Are you an American citizen and did you know the language before you went. I would be interested to know what the process was to move from the US to France for a PhD.

Research labs are very international so as long as you speak English you can do a PhD pretty much anywhere. It's also pretty easy to get a visa for a PhD or a postdoc. As for the process, basically you need to hold a master degree and find a professor/researcher with enough money to hire you. Labs often advertise PhD positions on their websites.

Finding a grant/supervisor is quite easy for a strong candidate. The critical part is too choose wisely the topic. Research tends to be very specialized and you may end up with a PhD that gives you few marketable skills.

Re: Graduate Students, the Laborers of Academia

#77

Post by yodsanklai » Thu, Sep 01, 2016, 11:56 AM UTC

semi-extrinsic wrote: post #71

dragandj wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most PhDs in Netherlands accept English speakers, and they all have many international students. When you find a position advertized, you can ask them about the procedure for non-EU citizens.

This is also true for Scandinavian countries (and trivially true for the UK). I would guess most of Europe, really. But you probably need to learn a small bit of the local language just to shop for groceries etc. The country I would be most hesitant about is France, they really don't like speaking English, and most French PhD theses are still written in French. This is really idiotic, all it does is slow down the dis…

> The country I would be most hesitant about is France, they really don't like speaking English

I believe it's a stereotype and it's certainly not the case in CS research labs. I did my PhD in a French research institution (INRIA). In my group, a majority of the people didn't speak French. And of course, PhD students could write and defend their thesis in English if they wanted to (I don't know if they had to find a non-French external examiner, but it's likely to be the case that some examiners are foreign anyway).

Re: Graduate Students, the Laborers of Academia

#78

Post by bo1024 » Thu, Sep 01, 2016, 12:08 PM UTC

chrisbennet wrote: post #75

Question: How can it possibly be illegal to get together with others to bargain? What is the rationale? If I and my fellow students/etc want to boycott something, compare notes on pay, share legal actions, or protest shouldn't that be protected by law? I'm not a fan of unions or political parties but it blows my mind that the legality of organizing with others is even a question.

I think unions involve a lot more than that. (Correct me if I'm wrong.) For instance, the decisions a union makes or negotiates for may affect all other workers even if they aren't part of the union.

Re: Graduate Students, the Laborers of Academia

#79

Post by dragandj » Thu, Sep 01, 2016, 12:28 PM UTC

semi-extrinsic wrote: post #71

dragandj wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most PhDs in Netherlands accept English speakers, and they all have many international students. When you find a position advertized, you can ask them about the procedure for non-EU citizens.

This is also true for Scandinavian countries (and trivially true for the UK). I would guess most of Europe, really. But you probably need to learn a small bit of the local language just to shop for groceries etc. The country I would be most hesitant about is France, they really don't like speaking English, and most French PhD theses are still written in French. This is really idiotic, all it does is slow down the dis…

This is only partly true, but even then, I wouldn't it call it idiotic. After all, can you defend your thesis in the US in French? You can't. So, why would it be idiotic for the French to expect theses at their unis to be defended in French, which is btw also an international language? It is not very pragmatic, for sure, but it has sense.

Re: Graduate Students, the Laborers of Academia

#80

Post by microtonal » Thu, Sep 01, 2016, 12:33 PM UTC

killaken2000 wrote: post #66

microtonal wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can vouch this as I went to graduate school where I worked for 5 years at 8-10 hours/day including Saturday and Sunday for $12,000/year to get a PhD Well, then don't do your PhD in the US. I did my PhD in the Netherlands, had a reasonable salary and a good work-life balance. I now work as a habilitant in Germany (roughly the equivalent of an assistant professor), it's the same: good salary, good balance. The primar…

Are you an American citizen and did you know the language before you went. I would be interested to know what the process was to move from the US to the Netherlands for a PhD.

I am Dutch, but most of my PhD colleagues were from other (primarily European) countries. They typically didn't know Dutch. Some decided to do Dutch courses, others managed fine sticking with English.

Many European research groups use English as their main language for communication. Also, outside academia many people in Western European countries and Scandinavia are proficient enough in English to communicate with. (Though in my personal experience, English proficiency in Germany is quite bad compared to e.g. The Netherlands or Denmark.)