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Graduate Students, the Laborers of Academia

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Re: Graduate Students, the Laborers of Academia

#41

Post by gozur88 »

makecheck wrote: post #30

A couple of anecdotes that really drive me crazy. One, the amount of money universities can shovel at athletics is insane . It cannot be justified, I don’t care how many reasons you come up with. They pay millions to build stadiums, pay coaches, etc. while throwing chump change at people doing academic work. I have also seen hundreds of thousands of dollars thrown at things like ugly artwork and statues. Two, the “ch…

>It cannot be justified, I don’t care how many reasons you come up with.

Of course it can be justified if the university is pulling in more money than it's spending. Athletics are a profit center for the stronger programs.

Re: Graduate Students, the Laborers of Academia

#42

Post by Noseshine »

gozur88 wrote: post #41
makecheck wrote: post #30

A couple of anecdotes that really drive me crazy. One, the amount of money universities can shovel at athletics is insane . It cannot be justified, I don’t care how many reasons you come up with. They pay millions to build stadiums, pay coaches, etc. while throwing chump change at people doing academic work. I have also seen hundreds of thousands of dollars thrown at things like ugly artwork and statues. Two, the “ch…

>It cannot be justified, I don’t care how many reasons you come up with. Of course it can be justified if the university is pulling in more money than it's spending. Athletics are a profit center for the stronger programs.

Accepting that that's actually true - and we know how flexible accounting is not just when you apply a will to bend the numbers but also when you have a bias (same as working with any data) - then it's only true within the system of "a university is a business". Whether it makes sense from any other perspective is quite a different matter. There are those (like me) coming from cultures where not everything was or is a business, and there is no such believe that making everything a business makes it better.

Re: Graduate Students, the Laborers of Academia

#43

Post by yequalsx »

gozur88 wrote: post #41
makecheck wrote: post #30

A couple of anecdotes that really drive me crazy. One, the amount of money universities can shovel at athletics is insane . It cannot be justified, I don’t care how many reasons you come up with. They pay millions to build stadiums, pay coaches, etc. while throwing chump change at people doing academic work. I have also seen hundreds of thousands of dollars thrown at things like ugly artwork and statues. Two, the “ch…

>It cannot be justified, I don’t care how many reasons you come up with. Of course it can be justified if the university is pulling in more money than it's spending. Athletics are a profit center for the stronger programs.

Athletics are a profit center for only a few universities. I doubt though that this includes spending on stadiums. There is also the cost in terms of corruption of the university and the damage done to athletes (especially American football) for little to no compensation.

http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/media-center/news/athlet...

Re: Graduate Students, the Laborers of Academia

#44

Post by newjersey »

Noseshine wrote: post #42
gozur88 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It cannot be justified, I don’t care how many reasons you come up with. Of course it can be justified if the university is pulling in more money than it's spending. Athletics are a profit center for the stronger programs.

Accepting that that's actually true - and we know how flexible accounting is not just when you apply a will to bend the numbers but also when you have a bias (same as working with any data) - then it's only true within the system of "a university is a business". Whether it makes sense from any other perspective is quite a different matter. There are those (like me) coming from cultures where not everything was or is…

I've been yapping this for ages. Apple or Google can't just start selling nuclear submarines to the highest bidder even if it meant huge profits if such an enterprise took the leadership away from what they currently do.

It isn't just money (and most universities LOSE money in athletics) but rather the change in culture with high spending in spectator sport. The top level leadership at universities is increasingly detached from academia.

I get that there needs to be some spending in support structure but the first and main goal should be education. Too much money (and more importantly attention) is being wasted in brand recognition and marketing.

Side note: would it be possible for universities to build small private cubicles/rooms or something assigned to each student where they can go study or whatever (probably with noise restrictions and so on to prevent distracting neighbors)? Even at its best, such a place would hardly be something a university can boast in its marketing pieces unlike a 80k seat football stadium.

Re: Graduate Students, the Laborers of Academia

#45

Post by xapata »

newjersey wrote: post #44
Noseshine wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Accepting that that's actually true - and we know how flexible accounting is not just when you apply a will to bend the numbers but also when you have a bias (same as working with any data) - then it's only true within the system of "a university is a business". Whether it makes sense from any other perspective is quite a different matter. There are those (like me) coming from cultures where not everything was or is…

I've been yapping this for ages. Apple or Google can't just start selling nuclear submarines to the highest bidder even if it meant huge profits if such an enterprise took the leadership away from what they currently do. It isn't just money (and most universities LOSE money in athletics) but rather the change in culture with high spending in spectator sport. The top level leadership at universities is increasingly de…

> small private cubicles ... with noise restrictions

like study carrels in a library?

Re: Graduate Students, the Laborers of Academia

#46

Post by p10_user »

cup wrote: post #11

I've always thought that PhD students should band together and refuse to run experiments for one week. The shock that might have on the current academic system, when administrators, managers, supervisors and project leaders start to realise that their careers depend on a constant supply of dependent serfs might shake things up.

That will likely hurt the student much more than the PI. Depending on the lab, PIs often have a tech, postdoc, or staff scientist when runs many experiments. The student's time is much more valuable than the PIs as the student only graduates when his/her thesis has enough content to write.

Re: Graduate Students, the Laborers of Academia

#47

Post by xapata »

estsauver wrote: post #36
howandwhy wrote: post #22

it should be written as "Cheap Labor". I can vouch this as I went to graduate school where I worked for 5 years at 8-10 hours/day including Saturday and Sunday for $12,000/year to get a PhD in Biological Science. And it was in one of the most expensive state in US. So could not afford to start a family because of perpetual state of sharing apartment and not enough money and time to go out and find a partner. And at t…

My wife went to a #1/#2 school for her field (molecular cell bio.) It certainly didn't seem much better there.

No, but the odds of things turning out the way she intended are just barely good enough at a top school that it might be rational.

Re: Graduate Students, the Laborers of Academia

#48

Post by newjersey »

xapata wrote: post #45
newjersey wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been yapping this for ages. Apple or Google can't just start selling nuclear submarines to the highest bidder even if it meant huge profits if such an enterprise took the leadership away from what they currently do. It isn't just money (and most universities LOSE money in athletics) but rather the change in culture with high spending in spectator sport. The top level leadership at universities is increasingly de…

> small private cubicles ... with noise restrictions like study carrels in a library?

Yes but instead of booking an available room or cubicle, everyone gets their own. Sort of like a dorm room but just a desk and a small closet/locker? Just brainstorming ideas. I was talking to someone about what college libraries can do to stay relevant in fields like computer science...

Re: Graduate Students, the Laborers of Academia

#50

Post by MichaelBurge »

makecheck wrote: post #30

A couple of anecdotes that really drive me crazy. One, the amount of money universities can shovel at athletics is insane . It cannot be justified, I don’t care how many reasons you come up with. They pay millions to build stadiums, pay coaches, etc. while throwing chump change at people doing academic work. I have also seen hundreds of thousands of dollars thrown at things like ugly artwork and statues. Two, the “ch…

A lot of the time, a university will raise money for the stadium via private money and revenue bonds. So none of your tuition goes to funding the stadium, although the university likely doesn't profit.

Real estate and businesses have a vibrant financial market, so you don't necessarily need large figures to participate. You're not going to raise $100 million in revenue bonds for a professor to study sea slugs, because there isn't any revenue.

University administrators do not have the power to make investors fund sea slugs over stadiums. If you can convince the nation's pension funds, hedge funds, and private investors to somehow buy science bonds rather than revenue bonds, then the administrators would stop buying stadiums and start hiring sea slug researchers.

I would tend to agree that the money might be better spent on building up dormitory or apartment housing for students rather than stadiums, if the revenue and costs were equal. But I'd need to look at the financials.

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