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Ask HN: How Did You Escape 9 to 5?

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Re: Ask HN: How Did You Escape 9 to 5?

#91

Post by gk1 »

I was very interested in consulting after reading about it from Patrick McKenzie and others. I especially loved the idea of having a choice of when, how, on what, and with whom I work.

When my 9-to-5 job became unbearable (long hours, bad management, high stress, etc), I finally decided to resign and give consulting a try. I didn't have a specific plan, and I spent the next 3 months figuring things out while living off my savings.

My backup plan was to return to 9-to-5 if I ever depleted all my savings without getting any traction. Fortunately it never came to that (although it got very close). Three years later I'm earning a very comfortable living consulting and I get to work on super interesting projects with super interesting companies.

I've written more about the experience here: http://www.gkogan.co/blog/how-i-learned-to-get-consulting-le...

Re: Ask HN: How Did You Escape 9 to 5?

#92

Post by codegeek »

Negative1 wrote: post #88
codegeek wrote: post #2

My story. I worked my ass off for 10+ years, saved a little bit of extra cash after paying off most loans and then bought an online business that I was interested in. I tried doing both for 2 months in parallel. One day I woke up and said "F*k this. I am done. Gotta quit". I then went to my boss and gave him the notice. I did calculate my risks as the business was just bringing in enough to keep me floating (with 2 k…

I've heard Health Insurance is pretty expensive if you are self-employed. How did you deal with that? Is your wife also employed in which case you are just able to share hers?

I did buy obamacare for a year or so but now my wife works and we use her health insurance. I will be in deep shit if I have to buy out of own pocket (family of 4). So yes, that helps a lot as well.

Re: Ask HN: How Did You Escape 9 to 5?

#94

Post by greggman »

djsumdog wrote: post #85
ryandrake wrote: post #81

Almost all of these replies involve growing a side project at home while remaining employed. I was under the impression most employers (at least in tech) do not allow this. Aren't you worried that your former employer will come knocking when your successful, asserting ownership over what you built? Where do you find companies that are cool with this? I've asked about tolerance of side-projects during interviews and h…

Employees don't have any control over what you write on your own time. I think some older IBM contracts claimed they did, but if you sign one of these today, you're an idiot (and they're not enforceable).

I don't think this is entirely true, at least in most states in the USA. It's called "duty of loyalty" and it basically means you can't compete with your employer. Whats competition is gray but I'm sure you can imagine examples of shades that are clearly competition, shades that are clearly not, and all kinds of shades in the middle.

Re: Ask HN: How Did You Escape 9 to 5?

#95

Post by apeace »

ryandrake wrote: post #81

Almost all of these replies involve growing a side project at home while remaining employed. I was under the impression most employers (at least in tech) do not allow this. Aren't you worried that your former employer will come knocking when your successful, asserting ownership over what you built? Where do you find companies that are cool with this? I've asked about tolerance of side-projects during interviews and h…

EDIT: I realized your question is probably about running a business on the side, not just writing code. My reply pertains to writing code.

I have been working at startups for a few years. I have made this work and been able to open-source both projects I do in my own time, and projects I built at work. Here is how I do it (note I am not a lawyer and not qualified to give legal advice):

* First step: always read your employment contract--the whole thing--before signing. Ask questions. Ask them to explain how software IP works in plain english (and in writing). All companies have lawyers, that's what they're paid for. I've never had anybody mind that I asked.

* Second step: do not sign a contract that grants IP to your company for software you wrote, on your time, on your own hardware, that is not directly competitive with the business. If this is the contract they give you, don't join the company. It's likely not enforceable, but you don't want to be in an IP lawsuit someday.

* Third step: list anything and everything you have on Github (public or private) in your exemptions. Contracts usually allow you to exempt anything you worked on before you joined.

* Final step: Write code! Do it on your own time, on your own hardware, and don't create anything that could be perceived as competing with the business. As a rule, I generally notify my boss (in writing) of _any_ side project I start working on, whether it's public or private. All he has to do is CC the lawyers, and they say "All clear, the business does not own that IP".

I may have been lucky in finding so many places that are "cool" about this. But mostly, I think it comes down to screening companies by talking about this up front.

Re: Ask HN: How Did You Escape 9 to 5?

#96

Post by tobz »

rloc wrote: post #54
tobz wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whoa whoa whoa, tell me more about the thing with France and collecting a percentage of your previous salary. How does all of that work? Who pays for it?

It's paid by the state while you look for another job (national employment agency). If your plan is to create a new company instead of looking for a new job you can get the aid as well. They'll usually leave you (almost) alone as long as you prove that you created a company and that you're not getting any salary of course. It's great and something that doesn't make the news so much. It could be viewed as a state fund…

Wow, that's neat. I'm assuming there are regulations around it, like being a French national or something along those lines?

Either way, thanks for pointing this out. That's an incredible benefit.

Re: Ask HN: How Did You Escape 9 to 5?

#97

Post by pkd »

ef4 wrote: post #10

After college I spent six years working at a good tech company. In addition to a lot of great learning, it allowed me to build a big financial cushion. I continued living on a graduate-student-like budget with a software engineer salary, so I saved about half my after-tax income. This generates one year of runway for every year worked. But my savings also grew thanks to some solid investments, so after six years I ha…

That is highly impressive. I would like to be able to save 50% of my net income, but I have found that I have very little control over spending and end up saving only around 20%.

Re: Ask HN: How Did You Escape 9 to 5?

#99

Post by hnjm0101 »

Curious why people here hate 9 - 5 so much. I can understand starting a business if you have an idea you're passionate about and you're confident you can make you more money than you can make working for someone else. But most software development jobs actually allow you to have a lot of autonomy (flexible hours, work remotely, etc), a place to socialize with people who are likely going to have a lot in common with you and good pay with a nice safety net. Venturing out on your own and starting your own business has none of these things.. at least in the beginning, you are likely going to work more, for less money, by yourself. I understand why the small subset of business owners start their business for the reason I mentioned above, but I get the impression a lot of people working 9 - 5 are just assuming the grass is greener on the other side...

Re: Ask HN: How Did You Escape 9 to 5?

#100

Post by AstralStorm »

endswapper wrote: post #71
malux85 wrote: post #36

It was just brute force. I worked every evening, every weekend, on the tube on the way to and from the office. During my lunch hours. My coworkers knew not to interrupt me during lunch, because I always took a sandwich to the same desk, put my headphones on, and worked. Have you seen that comic "You must burn", that's exactly it. It's painful, there's moments of crippling self doubt, there's moments when you'd rather…

Brute force describes it well. At some point you have to take the plunge. You will likely learn fairly quickly if it's for you. Expect to fail. And while it shouldn't be a goal, my failures have always been more beneficial, more productive than any success. Success always has the risk of promoting complacency. Failure will test your character and grit. In the end you will know more about yourself having tried than no…

Quite a few people just are not comfortable taking this high risk (way higher than just investing in risky startups) with their own money, time and often health. Those unslept hours and stress are not negligible.
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