Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency • Hacker News Board

Re: Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency

#81

Post by vidarh » Wed, Aug 31, 2016, 9:30 AM UTC

wastedhours wrote: post #73

Nursie wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it wasn't for the effect, nobody would bother acquiring the taste for beer or wine... Alcohol is, for the vast majority of the time, taken solely for the impact on the mind.

Really? I know I have no data to back up my point that all drugs are only taken for their impact on the mind, but I know that alcohol isn't solely taken for its impact on the mind. Wine is tasty. Beer is tasty. Brandy is tasty. And (anecdotally) know many people who aren't just drinking them to get out of their heads...

Most alcoholic drinks are extremely acquired tastes. Try finding people who haven't drunk much alcohol before adulthood and give them tastes of a selection of beers and wines, and I'd be willing to bet that most would find most of them disgusting.

I'm 41, and I still haven't acquired a taste for beer. I find it absolutely awful. I can tolerate most wines, but outside of extremely sweet dessert wines I have never tasted any that actually taste particularly enjoyable to me. I'm sure I could change that if I forced myself to drink more, but I don't really have any incentive to do so.

There are liquors that taste nice to me, but they are generally the ones that hide the alcohol taste quite well, like e.g. amaretto.

I'm sure taste is an element of it, but the point being that very few alcoholic drinks taste nice until you've spent a lot of time getting accustomed to the taste of alcohol without enjoying the taste first due to social expectations or a desire to get drunk.

Re: Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency

#82

Post by elbrownos » Wed, Aug 31, 2016, 9:34 AM UTC

eggy wrote: post #48

It's crazy to spend that much time in jail for a nonviolent offense, and such a small amount of substance in the US. The war on drugs is a big waste of many things. But to put it in perspective, I am currently living in SE Asia where you are informed by airline announcements and signs that drug trafficking is punishable by death in several of the countries here! I'm from Brooklyn, but I live in Indonesia now. I'm cur…

You forgot the Philippines. President Duterte has summarily executed nearly 2,000 suspected drug dealers and users since July 1st and vowed to execute 98,000 more.

http://time.com/4462352/rodrigo-duterte-drug-war-drugs-phili...

Re: Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency

#83

Post by hutzlibu » Wed, Aug 31, 2016, 9:34 AM UTC

LyndsySimon wrote: post #30

iconjack wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am outraged by the drug war, therefore I will not vote for a drug warrior. Not sure what else to say.

I wouldn't worry about it much - there are a lot of us out there who aren't exactly "single-issue voters", but for whom a single issue can make a candidate completely unpalatable. For me, that's guns. For you, that's drugs. For many others, it's abortion.

Just curious, pro or against guns?

I suppose against, meaning you want a candidat who wants tight regulation?

Re: Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency

#84

Post by titzer » Wed, Aug 31, 2016, 9:37 AM UTC

andrei_says_ wrote: post #78

fnj wrote: post #75

I get that the right to consume any substance one wants into one's own body is a basic human right, but outlawing LSD and cannabis are two cases of outrageous, striking dumbness and pointlessness. Neither one is addictive, and the LD50 of each is an incredible number of orders of magnitude higher than a normal dose. It is virtually impossible to harm yourself.

> I started to ask Ehrlichman a series of earnest, wonky questions that he impatiently waved away. “You want to know what this was really all about?” he asked with the bluntness of a man who, after public disgrace and a stretch in federal prison, had little left to protect. “The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I’m sa…

I think this quote is complete bunk. It comes from here: http://harpers.org/archive/2016/04/legalize-it-all/

This is Dan Baum recalling a conversation with a dead Ehrlichmann after he got out of prison, 20 years after he served with Nixon. Dan puts quotes around this passage but I don't believe for a second that that is what Ehrlichmann said. And Ehrlichmann died 17 years ago, so he's not around to defend himself.

Re: Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency

#85

Post by bogomipz » Wed, Aug 31, 2016, 9:39 AM UTC

eggy wrote: post #74

bogomipz wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wasn't an 'offense' it was plural 'offenses' as in three. And we aren't talking about personal possession we are talking about intent to distribute. The distinction between these are night and day.

I read that, and I get your point, but LSD, or marijuana, to me are not in the same league as heroin or cocaine and the amounts those are usually traded in along with the gangs and violence associated with them. I'm not at all addressing the law; I am expressing surprise over the extreme sentence in comparison to what I think are worse crimes. Rapists get what, 4 years in the US if prosecuted? There were/are people s…

But there are two different things - selling and using. Using is only marginally criminalized. Selling and distributing is a much more serious offense. Alcohol in some ways is no different. I can home brew all I want and bottle it and put it in the refrigerator. If throw the garage door open and start selling it to the general public I can expect some trouble from the legal system. Crossing state boundaries and using a Federal system like the mail further compounded this individual's situation.

I can assure rapists don't get 4 years and they are almost always prosecuted if there is enough evidence.

Re: Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency

#86

Post by justsaysmthng » Wed, Aug 31, 2016, 9:46 AM UTC

fnj wrote: post #75

I get that the right to consume any substance one wants into one's own body is a basic human right, but outlawing LSD and cannabis are two cases of outrageous, striking dumbness and pointlessness. Neither one is addictive, and the LD50 of each is an incredible number of orders of magnitude higher than a normal dose. It is virtually impossible to harm yourself.

In the eyes of the traditional establishment, LSD is an extremely dangerous substance, not because of it's potential for causing physical harm (which is very close to zero), but because of it's consciousness altering ability, also called "mind expansion" ability.

People who go through a proper acid trip are permanently changed. Their core philosophy, religious and political views can be dramatically altered.

They stop believing the stories that the State and Church wants them to believe and some become hard to control, insubordinate, etc which I would sum up with one word - "free" (of course, with it's own set of consequences).

If the System "brainwashes", the LSD "braincleans".

And then people turn into "hippies", wearing flowers in their hairs, hugging trees and eating vegetarian food. They look at all people as "human beings", instead of "Communist", "Muslim" or "Gay".

They also want everyone to take it.

If I were the military-industrial ego-centric paranoid war-mongering establishment of the '60s, then I would definitely outlaw it and try to get rid of everyone who promotes its use.

Fortunately, LSD and Marijuana are making a major come back, now globally, with millions of young people "waking up", which in our day and age is vitally important, so I hope we'll see news like these more often, including the release of Ross Ulbricht of SilkRoad fame among others.

Re: Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency

#87

Post by Nursie » Wed, Aug 31, 2016, 10:03 AM UTC

bogomipz wrote: post #76

Nursie wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Carrier weight is really dumb because someone carrying a 1g crystal has up to 10,000 doses on their person, 1g of paper, not so much.

LSD doses are measured in micrograms so 1 gram is in fact a substantial amount. Do the research. Theres a difference between opinion and fact. https://erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_dose.shtml

That's the point!

Yes, doses are in the order of 100-150 micrograms, for a basic dose. 100ug will do as an approximation.

How many doses of 100ug are there in 1g? Oooh... About 10,000.

So yes, 1g of crystal is a substantial amount, that's the point. Compared to a handful of doses on a gram of paper, it makes a mockery of the law if I were to be charged the same way whichever of the two I was carrying.

(Of course the law is an ass anyway, where it comes to drugs)

Re: Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency

#88

Post by k__ » Wed, Aug 31, 2016, 10:16 AM UTC

titzer wrote: post #84

andrei_says_ wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I started to ask Ehrlichman a series of earnest, wonky questions that he impatiently waved away. “You want to know what this was really all about?” he asked with the bluntness of a man who, after public disgrace and a stretch in federal prison, had little left to protect. “The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I’m sa…

I think this quote is complete bunk. It comes from here: http://harpers.org/archive/2016/04/legalize-it-all/ This is Dan Baum recalling a conversation with a dead Ehrlichmann after he got out of prison, 20 years after he served with Nixon. Dan puts quotes around this passage but I don't believe for a second that that is what Ehrlichmann said. And Ehrlichmann died 17 years ago, so he's not around to defend himself.

It doesn't sound far fetched to me, when I look what the Nixon administration did.

Re: Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency

#89

Post by curun1r » Wed, Aug 31, 2016, 10:39 AM UTC

fnj wrote: post #75

I get that the right to consume any substance one wants into one's own body is a basic human right, but outlawing LSD and cannabis are two cases of outrageous, striking dumbness and pointlessness. Neither one is addictive, and the LD50 of each is an incredible number of orders of magnitude higher than a normal dose. It is virtually impossible to harm yourself.

Comments like yours are very dangerous. They buy into the DARE framing of the dangers of drugs being death. But there are much more subtle dangers that get ignored when the discussion is framed this way.

And I say this as someone who went through a prolonged depression following ecstacy use in my early 20s. I stupidly evaluated the dangers of the drug and determined that the naysayers who were warning of possible death were full of shit and didn't think to consider the less severe negative consequences.

Re: Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency

#90

Post by torrent-of-ions » Wed, Aug 31, 2016, 10:43 AM UTC

curun1r wrote: post #89

fnj wrote: post #75

I get that the right to consume any substance one wants into one's own body is a basic human right, but outlawing LSD and cannabis are two cases of outrageous, striking dumbness and pointlessness. Neither one is addictive, and the LD50 of each is an incredible number of orders of magnitude higher than a normal dose. It is virtually impossible to harm yourself.

Comments like yours are very dangerous. They buy into the DARE framing of the dangers of drugs being death. But there are much more subtle dangers that get ignored when the discussion is framed this way. And I say this as someone who went through a prolonged depression following ecstacy use in my early 20s. I stupidly evaluated the dangers of the drug and determined that the naysayers who were warning of possible dea…

I went through depression after my first relationship. We don't warn children about the dangers of relationships, we just expect that they'll "figure it out" just like everyone else.

You figured out the dangers of high ecstasy usage yourself. Are you one of these people who thinks nobody but you is capable of figuring out how to use it safely?