Live data from Hacker News

Record-Breaking Galaxy Cluster Discovered

nasa.gov

11–20 of 28 posts

Re: Record-Breaking Galaxy Cluster Discovered

#11
post #2

NASA is making a lot of "record-breaking" news in the past few weeks and it is increasingly difficult for me to think how these news affect me and my relationship to the Galaxy. I understood many of these discoveries translated to "current science could be wrong". But if counting stars isn't my hobby, what am I supposed to take a way from this and digest the meaning of 11.1B light years distance?

That's just how science is. It doesn't need to be driven by a business or human "need".

Re: Record-Breaking Galaxy Cluster Discovered

#12
post #9
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly right. Its exciting because we get new data and if it contradicts theory, it forces us to reconsider what we think is the correct answer. And in that reconsideration our understanding grows. It is unfortunate that we cannot image this object once a day for 5 years and then watch its changes over that time period in one 30 minute viewing. Telescope time is too valuable to "waste" but I wonder what it might sho…

Let's say our telescopes get better and better. Are there any hard limits for how well we can resolve the light from such a galaxy?

I don't understand the actual science well enough myself to explain, but my understanding is that there are lots of limits to do with optics, the behaviour of light over such distances, the wavelike nature of light, etc.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffraction-limited_system for example.

Re: Record-Breaking Galaxy Cluster Discovered

#13
I always wondered about these measurements. Excuse me if this is rookie astronomical information. I have read that we gauge the distance through brightness. That is we know how bright such an object should be at the source, and estimate the distance based on actual brightness at the instrument. How do we know it's not just brighter than we believe, instead of being as far away as we believe?

Re: Record-Breaking Galaxy Cluster Discovered

#14

I always wondered about these measurements. Excuse me if this is rookie astronomical information. I have read that we gauge the distance through brightness. That is we know how bright such an object should be at the source, and estimate the distance based on actual brightness at the instrument. How do we know it's not just brighter than we believe, instead of being as far away as we believe?

A lot of research in astronomy is conducted to figure out how bright certain objects are, one classic example is "Cepheid variable" stars, these pulsate at a rate correlating with their brightness.

You're right in that there is sometimes debate about whether the "standard candles" as they're referred to are as bright as we expect, see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_distance_ladder#Problem...

Re: Record-Breaking Galaxy Cluster Discovered

#15
post #9
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly right. Its exciting because we get new data and if it contradicts theory, it forces us to reconsider what we think is the correct answer. And in that reconsideration our understanding grows. It is unfortunate that we cannot image this object once a day for 5 years and then watch its changes over that time period in one 30 minute viewing. Telescope time is too valuable to "waste" but I wonder what it might sho…

Let's say our telescopes get better and better. Are there any hard limits for how well we can resolve the light from such a galaxy?

Practically, yes, telescopes are limited by the diffraction limit. This depends on ratio of the wavelength of the light being captured to the size of the optics. In theory one could make larger and larger perfect lenses/mirrors, but practically there is a limit somewhere. More information at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angular_resolution

I suppose at some point quantum effects will take over, but I'm guessing the manufacturing requirements for perfect optics will be the limited factor long before then.

Re: Record-Breaking Galaxy Cluster Discovered

#16
post #15
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's say our telescopes get better and better. Are there any hard limits for how well we can resolve the light from such a galaxy?

Practically, yes, telescopes are limited by the diffraction limit. This depends on ratio of the wavelength of the light being captured to the size of the optics. In theory one could make larger and larger perfect lenses/mirrors, but practically there is a limit somewhere. More information at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angular_resolution I suppose at some point quantum effects will take over, but I'm guessing the m…

For large-aperture ground-based telescopes operating in the visible spectrum, the seeing limit is the dominant effect. Atmospheric turbulence is a bigger factor than the precision of your optics, in other words. See https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astronomical_seeing

(Space telescopes are diffraction-limited but have other constraints, like mass budget and cost, that keep them from being as large as ground based facilities.)

Re: Record-Breaking Galaxy Cluster Discovered

#17
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When we have evidence to the contrary. Speculation about what we might find in the future doesn't change anything.

Exactly right. Its exciting because we get new data and if it contradicts theory, it forces us to reconsider what we think is the correct answer. And in that reconsideration our understanding grows. It is unfortunate that we cannot image this object once a day for 5 years and then watch its changes over that time period in one 30 minute viewing. Telescope time is too valuable to "waste" but I wonder what it might sho…

> Telescope time is too valuable to "waste" but I wonder what it might show us.

It would be great if we could build more of them. I'm hoping that the cheaper access to space coupled with some clever hacks will let us throw a few more up there.

Re: Record-Breaking Galaxy Cluster Discovered

#18
post #5
post #2

NASA is making a lot of "record-breaking" news in the past few weeks and it is increasingly difficult for me to think how these news affect me and my relationship to the Galaxy. I understood many of these discoveries translated to "current science could be wrong". But if counting stars isn't my hobby, what am I supposed to take a way from this and digest the meaning of 11.1B light years distance?

The opening line tells it all for you: "A new record for the most distant galaxy cluster has been set". For reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_most_distant_astro...

At this scale of time and given the size, age and distance of galaxies, it doesn't really mean anything that will ever change our lives.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galaxy_cluster

We can't go there. Nothing from there will visit us.

If the big bang is even an actual thing, it still happened everywhere, whenever.

There are lots of galaxies, and they are old and far away.

Re: Record-Breaking Galaxy Cluster Discovered

#19

I always wondered about these measurements. Excuse me if this is rookie astronomical information. I have read that we gauge the distance through brightness. That is we know how bright such an object should be at the source, and estimate the distance based on actual brightness at the instrument. How do we know it's not just brighter than we believe, instead of being as far away as we believe?

I always understood the distance is measured by the amount of red shift: the further away a galaxy is, the faster it moves away from us due to the expansion of the universe. As a result, the wavelength of the light originating from this galaxy is streched moving it more to the red end of the spectrum. The amount of red shift can be used to calculate the distance of an object fairly accurately.

Re: Record-Breaking Galaxy Cluster Discovered

#20
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The opening line tells it all for you: "A new record for the most distant galaxy cluster has been set". For reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_most_distant_astro...

At this scale of time and given the size, age and distance of galaxies, it doesn't really mean anything that will ever change our lives. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galaxy_cluster We can't go there. Nothing from there will visit us. If the big bang is even an actual thing, it still happened everywhere, whenever. There are lots of galaxies, and they are old and far away.

you are very wrong. understanding the universe means understanding our very home, us, where we come from, where we are going to, how will this all end (ie in big contraction/endless expansion).

if this topic ain't for you, no problem, but it's extremely interesting to many others.

Post reply on HN