Google Takes on Uber with New Ride-Share Service • Hacker News Board

Re: Google Takes on Uber with New Ride-Share Service

#141

Post by serge2k » Tue, Aug 30, 2016, 9:14 PM UTC

alkonaut wrote: post #109

runako wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If only that were remotely true. In many/most states, the minimum wage for a variety of jobs is not in the range of "livable". For example, minimum wage for restaurant jobs in Georgia is $2.13/hour [1]. They actually don't "get paid enough for this shit," so their attitude actually matches reality. Tipping is a necessary component of the compensation if we want to continue our practice of letting certain employers ha…

Not sure why you'd accept that very long. I'll tell you how it works here (swe): Most of restaurant employees in the city are organized. There are no minimum wages, instead the union and the corresponding employee organization agree on a minimum compensation. A restaurant that doesn't want to follow the agreement will risk being blockaded by both this Union and any other union that symphathizes, for example their tra…

> a nice university degree will likely not make you twice the hourly wage of the lowest diner job in the country.

Why shouldn't it?

Re: Google Takes on Uber with New Ride-Share Service

#142

Post by andreasvc » Tue, Aug 30, 2016, 9:14 PM UTC

et-al wrote: post #99

runako wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If only that were remotely true. In many/most states, the minimum wage for a variety of jobs is not in the range of "livable". For example, minimum wage for restaurant jobs in Georgia is $2.13/hour [1]. They actually don't "get paid enough for this shit," so their attitude actually matches reality. Tipping is a necessary component of the compensation if we want to continue our practice of letting certain employers ha…

I waited tables a decade ago. If I recall correctly, it was $2.95 + tips and I believe with a 4% tip-out. So your 15% tip became 11% real quick. So I hustled. I'm not saying that we should continue to screw over people who rely on tips as living wage. What I'm saying is that if one wants to have the overwhelmingly warm service Americans expect in restaurants, we need to keep tipping. After all, we've heard anecdotes…

> What I'm saying is that if one wants to have the overwhelmingly warm service Americans expect in restaurants, we need to keep tipping.

Except you do not give any argument for why that is the case, but just hand wavingly claim it. Why exactly wouldn't it work if tips were abolished, all the prices on the menu are raised to match the average income from tips, and salaries raised to make up for tips? I don't see why good service would only be possible with tipping.

Re: Google Takes on Uber with New Ride-Share Service

#143

Post by robk » Tue, Aug 30, 2016, 9:16 PM UTC

secure wrote: post #38

Eric_WVGG wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Talk to your drivers about it. So far they've all told me that they get more passengers thanks to the app, and the pay from Uber's base rate outweighs unpredictable tips. [edit] NYC, and the drivers are pretty candid about still picking up rides from black car dispatchers and competitors. I have no reason to question their honesty.

All drivers I’ve talked to (mostly in the London area) told me they are very unhappy with their pay, but because Uber is so cheap, they can’t drive for their old cab companies anymore (all business moved to Uber).

Because those old mincab services were TERRIBLE. Calling to book late at night with unknown arrival times and being forced to ask everyone at the party "hey what's the post code here?" wasn't fun. Bye bye Swiss Cottage Minicabs. I've not had a blanket negative from London drivers though. Some complain but most seem "meh" like moving from one job to another.

Re: Google Takes on Uber with New Ride-Share Service

#144

Post by ChuckMcM » Tue, Aug 30, 2016, 9:18 PM UTC

Ok, not unexpected given that Drummond stepped back from being a board member, of course they got that seat by buying nearly 7% of the company[1]. Which if they had sold it to the other investors who came in on $62.5B round[2] they could have taken about $900M out which they could use to start their own ride sharing service. Sort of like drinking the Unicorn's blood to create a spell that will kill the Unicorn. The irony here, especially after Google did the same thing at Apple, big investment, board seat, oh wait you have a business that seems to be a winner (iPhone) lets step back and do that!

I wonder if this will make it harder for GV to participate in any sort of funding rounds.

[1] "Google Ventures invested $258M at $3.7B post-money valuation in 2013" -- https://www.quora.com/What-percentage-of-Uber-does-Google-ow...

[2] http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-12-03/uber-raise...

Re: Google Takes on Uber with New Ride-Share Service

#145

Post by BurningFrog » Tue, Aug 30, 2016, 9:22 PM UTC

speg wrote: post #7

mmanfrin wrote: post #3

Honestly I wish they wouldn't try to compete on price. Maybe I'm alone with this, but I'd rather not feel obligated to tip a driver because the ride is so cheap. Pay them a living wage, let me pay the exact fee, and let me not have to carry goddamn cash like I used to in the era of Taxis. e: Addressing common replies: "This is for people commuting already" -- okay, point taken; my point about Uber/Lyft still stands.…

I took an Uber home from the train station last week and it was less than $15. I'm not sure how much a taxi would've been, probably at least $25. I don't feel good about it. How can someone provide good service if they're taking home so little? I fear that soon Uber will be overrun with poor service because all the quality drivers have been driven out by low costs.

I don't think it's my problem. The driver freely chose to do this for the pay offered. Why should I second guess that?

Where it gets weird is when people take the taxi instead. This means the Uber driver loses $15, but you don't have to see him...

Re: Google Takes on Uber with New Ride-Share Service

#146

Post by c0g » Tue, Aug 30, 2016, 9:22 PM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #66

jonahx wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

as a practical matter, i don't believe it's possible to have "optional" tipping that doesn't create obligation (even if that would be desirable). either you create a cultural norm where tipping isn't allowed or expected, which Uber has effectively done, or you have a situation like restaurants, where the tip may as well be part of the price, unless you're cool being the asshole who doesn't tip, which most people aren…

> if tipping is an option, through a kind of cultural game-theoretic pressure, the situation will always devolve into the restaurant norm. at least that's how it is in the states In the UK tipping in restaurants is optional and, while it sounds really weird to say this, I don't think the waiters and waitresses seem to care either way. I don't get a different reaction from them if I tip or if I don't. They don't seem…

Where do you live? I've lived in the south east since I was young and people definitely expect to tip/be tipped 10%. It's not as strong as America but definitely odd not to.

Re: Google Takes on Uber with New Ride-Share Service

#147

Post by gambiting » Tue, Aug 30, 2016, 9:22 PM UTC

res0nat0r wrote: post #76

chrisseaton wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if tipping is an option, through a kind of cultural game-theoretic pressure, the situation will always devolve into the restaurant norm. at least that's how it is in the states In the UK tipping in restaurants is optional and, while it sounds really weird to say this, I don't think the waiters and waitresses seem to care either way. I don't get a different reaction from them if I tip or if I don't. They don't seem…

I think it is because they aren't getting paid $2.13/hr like servers in the USA are.

In Poland a common wage per hour for a server is 5 pln(low end) - 10 pln(high end)/hour = 1.28/2.56 USD. Tipping is just weird, full stop.

Re: Google Takes on Uber with New Ride-Share Service

#148

Post by freyr » Tue, Aug 30, 2016, 9:23 PM UTC

mmanfrin wrote: post #3

Honestly I wish they wouldn't try to compete on price. Maybe I'm alone with this, but I'd rather not feel obligated to tip a driver because the ride is so cheap. Pay them a living wage, let me pay the exact fee, and let me not have to carry goddamn cash like I used to in the era of Taxis. e: Addressing common replies: "This is for people commuting already" -- okay, point taken; my point about Uber/Lyft still stands.…

> "Tipping isn't obligatory" -- yes, it kind of is.

No, it really isn't. I've never been asked by an Uber driver for a tip, nor would I give a tip if asked. In fact, I'd probably dock a point from their rating.

Put the onus back on the company to pay an honest wage, and let everybody pay the same price for a ride (rather than tippers subsidizing rides for non-tippers).

Re: Google Takes on Uber with New Ride-Share Service

#149

Post by alkonaut » Tue, Aug 30, 2016, 9:24 PM UTC

serge2k wrote: post #141

alkonaut wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why you'd accept that very long. I'll tell you how it works here (swe): Most of restaurant employees in the city are organized. There are no minimum wages, instead the union and the corresponding employee organization agree on a minimum compensation. A restaurant that doesn't want to follow the agreement will risk being blockaded by both this Union and any other union that symphathizes, for example their tra…

> a nice university degree will likely not make you twice the hourly wage of the lowest diner job in the country. Why shouldn't it?

Not saying it shouldn't, but it should because qualified work can be paid more not because unqualified work can be paid less. Having an organized workforce that says "the minimum cost for full time work of any kind is a living wage" flattens it.

Re: Google Takes on Uber with New Ride-Share Service

#150

Post by gambiting » Tue, Aug 30, 2016, 9:25 PM UTC

robk wrote: post #143

secure wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All drivers I’ve talked to (mostly in the London area) told me they are very unhappy with their pay, but because Uber is so cheap, they can’t drive for their old cab companies anymore (all business moved to Uber).

Because those old mincab services were TERRIBLE. Calling to book late at night with unknown arrival times and being forced to ask everyone at the party "hey what's the post code here?" wasn't fun. Bye bye Swiss Cottage Minicabs. I've not had a blanket negative from London drivers though. Some complain but most seem "meh" like moving from one job to another.

Yeah, every taxi/minicab company at any city in UK on Saturday night is like "sorry, there's a 2 hour wait" - and even if you do wait, nothing turns up. In the meantime, Uber is always instant, the longest waiting time I've ever seen with Uber was 10 minutes, even on the busiest time on Saturday night.