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California bans ITT tech from accepting new students

latimes.com

131–140 of 325 posts

Re: California bans ITT tech from accepting new students

#131

I agree with a lot of the complaints I've heard about ITT. They seem to broadly fall into three camps: 1) They are expensive and rely on their students getting gov't loans, 2) They don't adequately prepare students for the work place, and 3) The teachers aren't very good. I think those are all great reasons to not go to ITT. But, I think those reasons could also apply to a whole lot of other schools, profit, non-prof…

> But, I think those reasons could also apply to a whole lot of other schools, profit, non-profit, private, and public.

So why stop at ITT?

Re: California bans ITT tech from accepting new students

#132
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be interested to hear what you would expect as bare minimums for a "basic entry level technical role." I've heard of recruiters being dumbfounded at CS grads not being able to code FizzBuzz and to be honest I can't believe it.

Let me flip that around and offer that I've had "technical" recruiters fail their end of this transaction as well. One experience involved a recruiter who wanted a compete rewrite of a CV portion outlining a SQL project from planning to continuous implementation models I built. This on top of 8 years of other experience in data design and management. The recruiter wanted to pass on my resume because I had failed to i…

Had I been the hiring manager (or anyone in management) here, I would have LOVED it if you had gotten in touch directly and told me about this. This likely would have been followed up by an interview with you and said recruiter being dismissed. I think a lot of good companies would do the same.

Re: California bans ITT tech from accepting new students

#133
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Besides the financial issues that these companies created, the main issue is the quality of teachers. There are so so many of these colleges that the pool of quality teachers are almost all going to be in universities. I took a business course for a year and all of the teachers were at most middle managers, marketing managers, or long retired company-men from IBM or other big corps. They all just read off of powerpoi…

those who can - do; those who can't - teach; those who can't teach - lecture

http://zenpencils.com/comic/124-taylor-mali-what-teachers-ma...

Re: California bans ITT tech from accepting new students

#134

Reading the comments here has been really eye opening to me. I always knew that tuition was orders-of-magnitude more expensive across the Atlantic but now it's a bit clearer why. Here (Northern Ireland, but it applies to the UK as a whole), students don't start to repay their loans until their earnings are over a certain threshold, then repayments are proportional to how much they earn over that level. If their annua…

Coming from Finland where all schools are free, the tuitions sound crazy to me as well.

However I don't think "good loan terms" is the cause for your low tuition prices at all.

At least in other contexts, the reverse is usually true: When people have easy access to capital, prices go up. This happens for example in Finland with government rent subsidies (for people with trouble paying for a place to live in): When the subsidies go up, the rents go up as well, and apartment owners pocket more.

Re: California bans ITT tech from accepting new students

#135

I agree with a lot of the complaints I've heard about ITT. They seem to broadly fall into three camps: 1) They are expensive and rely on their students getting gov't loans, 2) They don't adequately prepare students for the work place, and 3) The teachers aren't very good. I think those are all great reasons to not go to ITT. But, I think those reasons could also apply to a whole lot of other schools, profit, non-prof…

Yes, these are problems that are present for some other schools, but ITT Tech is far worse. For-profit schools aren't even in the same ballpark as other types of schools, in terms of the default rate. These are businesses where the "admissions counselors" are salespeople who are told to lie to people and strongarm them into attending, taking out massive government loans and effectively stealing money from the federal…

Comparing a 4-year college and a technical school is heavy-handed. Neither share demographics, nor business model. As one of 'We the People', it is also disturbing to read 'stealing money from the federal government'.

Re: California bans ITT tech from accepting new students

#136

"Last year, it enrolled 45,000 students and reported $850 million in revenue". That's about $19k/year/student. Just to put that in perspective, a 10 day Cisco Network Engineering course from Unitek in the Bay area (last time I took one, great school, at least in network engineering) costs $8,200. The issue isn't the cost, honestly, $19k/year isn't that expensive, the issue is whether they are delivering value for mon…

Something doesn't match up with those numbers. Tuition at ITT starts at about $45k/yr.

http://programinfo.itt-tech.edu/cost.pdf

Re: California bans ITT tech from accepting new students

#138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because student loans are guaranteed by the federal government. Student can default and the bank will still get their money.

And this arguably the real issue. I'm all for the government funding education as long as it's effective education and not overpriced. In the case though they effectively put up a "Free Money" sign with nearly zero strings attached.

Like in UK? Where everyone gets a student loan from the government, but no university(and that includes Oxford and Cambridge) is allowed to charge more than 9k(roughly $12k) a year? You also don't start paying back until you have a job that pays more than a certain amount per year, and you have 40 years to pay it off - if you don't, it's forfeit.

Re: California bans ITT tech from accepting new students

#139
post #66
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> refusing to hire a qualified electrical engineer because he didn't list AA Batteries on his resume LOL! It won't be long before the majority of EEs under 25 won't even know what an AA battery is. In fact, I bet it would be pretty hard today to find someone in their 20s who knows what a 9-volt is.

Let alone experience licking one.

Haha! I'm 28, and my dad and I bonded over, among other things, licking a 9-volt battery.

Re: California bans ITT tech from accepting new students

#140
post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For some, it could be anxiety. I sometimes choke on really simple questions in interviews that I know I could easily answer if I were home alone. I have anxiety issues in general, though.

I think it's also important that sometimes it can be misunderstanding the question. I know it sounds silly because it's written clearly here, but in a spoken interview it's possible an interviewee can miss a detail and suddenly think they're faced with travelling salesmen. Or are worried about I/O Of course in those situations, the "right" thing to do is ask for clarification, or think out loud. And an interviewer sh…

This is pretty significant. I recently had the opportunity to sit in on some meetings & IM conversations with a recruiting team at my workplace, and was pleasantly surprised with how detailed they were in honing their interview approach.

One proposed open-ended interview question in particular (these recruiters utilize both coding exercises & open-ended questions, plus some other stuff), "What's the difference between the stack and the heap?" was shot down for a number of reasons - colloquially, these refer to two different pools of memory wherein variables can be allocated. But stacks and heaps are also specific data structures, so there's some ambiguity. Most importantly, it's surprisingly difficult to answer that with anything that's 100% correct (e.g. "the stack is for variables with known lifetimes, whereas the heap is for those with unknown lifetimes" is really just a convention, and there are plenty of exceptions w.r.t. data structures of size that isn't compile-time constant, or dealing with polymorphism in certain languages). And since the question is rooted in fact, vs something that's intended to be debatable, lots of people won't throw forward the thoughts they have that are only 80% correct - they effectively freeze.

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