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Job Descriptions Should Be Better

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Re: Job Descriptions Should Be Better

#3
Lot of heat in this one with only a little light.

> > We are an engineering driven organization and we are proud of our engineers. Come join them! > Thank goodness. Every other company is ashamed of their engineers.

There's a scene (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6xK0Hefsq0) in IT crowd where upper management is celebrating the completion of a major project. It's hyperbole, but there's plenty of programmers working in companies and industries where writing software is sort of a bit role in the greater company structure. As a sales pitch, it would resonate with those programmers a bit that software companies have executives who don't ignore software.

Re: Job Descriptions Should Be Better

#4
With a lot of hiring processes I get the impression of filters tuned to the exact match of skill and experience requirements, plus some padding. This is systemically bound to fail because the candidate pool for any one cross section of a growing area is going to be small enough to put you in competition over the qualified candidates. As well, it tunes for a stodgy "best practices" mindset, with no chance of spreading skills diversity through your team.

For a field requiring some creativity as well as learned knowledge, enthusiasm and willingness to learn really matters, and the easiest way to induce enthusiasm is actually to go a little off of the mark and present candidates with an opportunity to learn the role based on their existing strengths. That presents some risk, and it's much harder to make it work as you go for "senior" candidates. But case-by-case, there are always ways to offset that risk if you are creative enough - better ways than putting folks who claim to know everything under the microscope in order to fail them as fast as possible, a process which builds a high level of mistrust.

Re: Job Descriptions Should Be Better

#5

The main thing I want from job descriptions is a salary range. The fact that companies don't post salaries is a strong counter-point to how companies complain about how hard it is to hire software engineers.

That is a pretty basic piece of info that companies like to exclude. They tend to just post "competitive salary" when in fact a lot of the ones that state that pay well below market.

Re: Job Descriptions Should Be Better

#6
post #3

Lot of heat in this one with only a little light. > > We are an engineering driven organization and we are proud of our engineers. Come join them! > Thank goodness. Every other company is ashamed of their engineers. There's a scene ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6xK0Hefsq0 ) in IT crowd where upper management is celebrating the completion of a major project. It's hyperbole, but there's plenty of programmers worki…

Your statement is very fair. However, even though there are definitely companies that don't value their programmers, I would be surprised if any of them actually said that in a job description.

How do you tell the difference between a company that does value their engineers from one that doesn't if both companies say the same thing? It is not an easy thing to do for sure, but generic uplifting statements don't solve that problem and don't add to job descriptions.

Re: Job Descriptions Should Be Better

#7
> The whole point of them is to provide a candidate a description of what a position is like.

The trouble is I don't think its possible to know what a position is like until you start it. At least it has been thus with all my jobs so far.

Best you can do is tell the candidate what (a) skills are needed, and (b) what the team is doing. I guess a lot of these job descriptions are doing a poor job of (b) by trying to be too bubbly.

Re: Job Descriptions Should Be Better

#8
post #6
post #3

Lot of heat in this one with only a little light. > > We are an engineering driven organization and we are proud of our engineers. Come join them! > Thank goodness. Every other company is ashamed of their engineers. There's a scene ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6xK0Hefsq0 ) in IT crowd where upper management is celebrating the completion of a major project. It's hyperbole, but there's plenty of programmers worki…

Your statement is very fair. However, even though there are definitely companies that don't value their programmers, I would be surprised if any of them actually said that in a job description. How do you tell the difference between a company that does value their engineers from one that doesn't if both companies say the same thing? It is not an easy thing to do for sure, but generic uplifting statements don't solve…

> How do you tell the difference between a company that does value their engineers from one that doesn't if both companies say the same thing?

You check if they put their money where their mouth is. Generally, a (well-funded) company that pays its (senior) engineers the same as or more than its executives values engineering. To name two, I've noticed both Google and IBM immediately matching friends' competing offers no questions asked. I know two other engineers whose base, cash salary was over USD 400,000 / year. Cash is very expensive to managers, and enormously expensive to startups (equity less so, but still quite a bit) so it is a reliable signal.

A subtler way might be to check the flavour of engineering projects, and particularly their time horizon. Bringing up Google again, one SDE mentioned using machine learning to automate managing their infrastructure. That's the kind of risky, ambitious, long term project you want to look for.

I personally take mentions of intangible things as negative signals from experience. Something along the lines of if someone is trying to reassure you about something, it means they think it's an issue.

Re: Job Descriptions Should Be Better

#9
post #4

With a lot of hiring processes I get the impression of filters tuned to the exact match of skill and experience requirements, plus some padding. This is systemically bound to fail because the candidate pool for any one cross section of a growing area is going to be small enough to put you in competition over the qualified candidates. As well, it tunes for a stodgy "best practices" mindset, with no chance of spreading…

One reason you put filters is to import foreigners. I haven't seen the US side of things but in other locations I've worked, you are required to list jobs on a national jobs database for a couple of weeks first and in theory to prove you couldn't find locals before hiring foreigners. The H1B system looks similar.

If you already have a candidate in mind, making the JD fit their CV both repels other qualified local candidates ("it says 4.5 years of Erlang backend experience, I'll get rejected") and makes it easy for you to justify the foreign hire. There's usually someone in HR who used to work for the relevant government ministry who will tell you exactly how to word the job ad and later visa application and appeals.

Note in case not obvious: I'm not advocating doing this.

Re: Job Descriptions Should Be Better

#10

The main thing I want from job descriptions is a salary range. The fact that companies don't post salaries is a strong counter-point to how companies complain about how hard it is to hire software engineers.

That does seem to be a very critical piece that is missing. Not that engineers say what they are selling themselves for in their applications either...
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