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California bans ITT tech from accepting new students

latimes.com

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Re: California bans ITT tech from accepting new students

#111

Post by cloakandswagger »

tn13 wrote: post #96
gremlinsinc wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why not allow them to operate instead of force them out--make them pay for all defaulted loans above 8% -- that might make them work harder to get their students gainfully employed so they can cover their loans. -- not that I like ITT, I abhor them, and think that Bootcamps are WAY better in terms of quality education and quality of job prospects.

Yes this. The problem here is with the government instead of ITT in my opinion. If you are lending money to someone who is taking significantly more risk it is your fault if the person fails to pay it back and not of the consumer or the business selling the service. In fact it makes sense for the government to do better credit risk analysis for every college-course-student instead of providing loans for any student,…

Why the downvotes? It seems perfectly sensible that the government should be selective about who it loans money to. Even more so than private industry, considering the money they're handing out is from a deficit that productive peoples' taxes pay for.

Re: California bans ITT tech from accepting new students

#113

Post by h4nkoslo »

Blackthorn wrote: post #107
h4nkoslo wrote: post #55

One aspect of ITT and its ilk is that the students often only sign up so they can take out "education" loans for living expenses, with the class work as a very secondary concern.

You're gonna need to provide a citation for such a serious claim.

It's hardly a secret that student loans, intentionally, cover living expenses, and that enrolment rises when the economy sucks. Students aren't embezzling the money; living expenses are bundled with the (crappy) package.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB100014240527023045850045794150...

Re: California bans ITT tech from accepting new students

#114

Post by bdcravens »

duncan_bayne wrote: post #7
finid wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> so I want to know if it's being attacked for legitimate or political reasons. Why would California attack ITT for political reasons? The problem with ITT is the same problem with all such schools - profit above all else. Whether their students learn anything is secondary.

Proponents of taxpayer funded education, and unions, frequently attack high performing private schools, at least here in Australasia. That said, it doesn't sound like this is one of the high performing schools.

> high performing private schools

This is not how I'd categorize ITT.

Re: California bans ITT tech from accepting new students

#115

Post by Hydraulix989 »

Jach wrote: post #49
zitterbewegung wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Digipen has some alumni in Valve that worked on mechanics for portal and portal 2 http://digipen.edu

As a graduate of a few years ago and repeating what some folks from before even my time have mentioned I'll be the first to add that digipen isn't what it once was. Sure it's not really close to ITT levels of fail... Yet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRWvfMLl4ho

Schools like that are where the "Tighten up the graphics on Level 3" meme came from!

Re: California bans ITT tech from accepting new students

#116

Post by jcurbo »

ben_jones wrote: post #106
joshmn wrote: post #98

Are they preying on desperate students, or people who are considered "unfavorable" to learning otherwise? I know a few people who considered ITT. They all have one thing alike: they're not the smartest or most driven of people by any means. (that's two, sorry) I'm curious... What are their student's standardized test scores, as well as high school records? I'm sure there's a pattern there that can describe some their…

Companies like ITT specifically target military service members because they are: 1) In their twenties and looking to start a career outside the military. 2) Eligible for a variety of loans, grants, and other financial services unavailable to the general public. 3) If they are still in the military, they will have much lower default rates as the military takes debt very seriously (as a representation of character rea…

All true. The Post-9/11 GI Bill was a large driver of this - if you've done your time, it's basically free schooling and all you have to do is sign up. The govt sends the tuition money directly to the school, you just have to recertify with the VA every semester. (In the old GI Bill you got the money first, and the rates were different)

(source: prior military, used Post-9/11 GI Bill to get my master's)

Re: California bans ITT tech from accepting new students

#117

Post by praneshp »

known wrote: post #112

I believe many ITT students are from India.

I doubt it. Even if we wanted to waste our money there, the chances of getting a F1 visa is slim to none. Maybe there are Indians attending these schools illegally but pretty sure it's not large enough for anyone to notice. Do you have a source?

Re: California bans ITT tech from accepting new students

#118

Post by jeffdavis »

jmcgough wrote: post #59
crazy1van wrote: post #51

I agree with a lot of the complaints I've heard about ITT. They seem to broadly fall into three camps: 1) They are expensive and rely on their students getting gov't loans, 2) They don't adequately prepare students for the work place, and 3) The teachers aren't very good. I think those are all great reasons to not go to ITT. But, I think those reasons could also apply to a whole lot of other schools, profit, non-prof…

Yes, these are problems that are present for some other schools, but ITT Tech is far worse. For-profit schools aren't even in the same ballpark as other types of schools, in terms of the default rate. These are businesses where the "admissions counselors" are salespeople who are told to lie to people and strongarm them into attending, taking out massive government loans and effectively stealing money from the federal…

22% vs 8% is not as big of a difference as I expected. It is plausible to explain that difference by the type of students likely to attend ITT vs a 4 year public university.

Re: California bans ITT tech from accepting new students

#119

Post by headmelted »

Reading the comments here has been really eye opening to me.

I always knew that tuition was orders-of-magnitude more expensive across the Atlantic but now it's a bit clearer why.

Here (Northern Ireland, but it applies to the UK as a whole), students don't start to repay their loans until their earnings are over a certain threshold, then repayments are proportional to how much they earn over that level. If their annual earnings ever fall below it again, payments stop until they're back on their feet.

I can't remember exactly what my interest rate was but I know it was fixed BELOW the central bank rate at the time.

Standard financial advice here is to max the loan out even if you weren't in need of it and just put it in a savings account for the interest (probably not worth it these days).

Lastly, if the loans aren't fully repaid by retirement age, they're written off.

So yeah, you folks are really getting screwed over there.

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