California bans ITT tech from accepting new students • Hacker News Board

Re: California bans ITT tech from accepting new students

#101

Post by rdtsc » Tue, Aug 30, 2016, 4:41 AM UTC

buddylw wrote: post #47

rdtsc wrote: post #18

Are there any good ITT / University of Phoenix type schools? They all seem like scams. I don't count community colleges here, I know those can be very good. My wife went to one, got great education, was able to pay it by just budgeting money every month out of her part time work. Then switched to a 4 years univeristy, transfered credits and graduated with honors after 2 more years (with minimal loans). Would it be ha…

The quality of education varies between institutions. I graduated from DeVry a little over 10 years ago. I got a decent education (ABET accredited B.S. Computer Engineering Technology) and was able to put myself through school and get a good job. I could have done it a little cheaper in a state school and a lot cheaper with a community college, but for what it was I don't really have any regrets. My only critique is…

Makes sense. Thanks for sharing. I am glad it worked for you.

There is probably a good pattern of going there but studying yourself and then get an official paper there (as long as it states accredited).

I did that to a certain extent at an average state school. Got grades from there but also used to study in depth other things I was interested in -- learned Python, security stuff, networking. It was really knowing those extra things that got me the job later, but if I didn't have the official paper, would have not gotten through the door (unfortunately).

But yeah accepting anyone might seem nice "we don't reject people like those mean state schools" but they don't do it from the goodness of their heart obviously.

Re: California bans ITT tech from accepting new students

#102

Post by Blackthorn » Tue, Aug 30, 2016, 4:43 AM UTC

pessimizer wrote: post #53

bko wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard stories like that before. Serious question, what do those people actually do? Are they just so far removed from these general type of questions that they can not answer them or do they have no programming ability at all? It just strikes me as bizarre

Never-ending projects that never deliver, and management that never looks at the code. Also, cheating your way through college - which is basically a requirement for a lot of programs that offer a vertical learning curve, programs spoiled by the fact that many of the people who take a CS program have been hobbyist programmers for years. After the second semester, CS students divide into three groups: 1) stressed out…

Your comment is bullshit. Some of the best people I've worked with, both in and out of college, didn't even begin programming until taking their first CS course in college. No cheating or adderall involved.

You aren't doomed or damaged if you haven't programmed before hitting college. Claiming that is slandering a generation of engineers.

Re: California bans ITT tech from accepting new students

#103

Post by greggman » Tue, Aug 30, 2016, 4:43 AM UTC

selectodude wrote: post #74

gohrt wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do private lenders lend to ITT students?

Because student loans are guaranteed by the federal government. Student can default and the bank will still get their money.

And this arguably the real issue. I'm all for the government funding education as long as it's effective education and not overpriced.

In the case though they effectively put up a "Free Money" sign with nearly zero strings attached.

Re: California bans ITT tech from accepting new students

#104

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Aug 30, 2016, 4:44 AM UTC

selectodude wrote: post #74

gohrt wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do private lenders lend to ITT students?

Because student loans are guaranteed by the federal government. Student can default and the bank will still get their money.

[deleted]

Re: California bans ITT tech from accepting new students

#105

Post by rdtsc » Tue, Aug 30, 2016, 4:45 AM UTC

Digory wrote: post #85

buddylw wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The quality of education varies between institutions. I graduated from DeVry a little over 10 years ago. I got a decent education (ABET accredited B.S. Computer Engineering Technology) and was able to put myself through school and get a good job. I could have done it a little cheaper in a state school and a lot cheaper with a community college, but for what it was I don't really have any regrets. My only critique is…

One attorney I know pursued several claims against scam schools a few years ago. Of the schools he had investigated, he said DeVry was unusual because it was trying to operate like a real educational institution. Federal loan money has distorted for-profit and non-profit institutions. But it's depressingly uncommon to find for-profit trade "schools" that actually care about educating students.

Interesting. Other comments imply that too. It would seem like actually trying to teach students something might be good for long term survival. Being around longer means make more profits for investors, go figure...

Re: California bans ITT tech from accepting new students

#106

Post by ben_jones » Tue, Aug 30, 2016, 4:46 AM UTC

joshmn wrote: post #98

Are they preying on desperate students, or people who are considered "unfavorable" to learning otherwise? I know a few people who considered ITT. They all have one thing alike: they're not the smartest or most driven of people by any means. (that's two, sorry) I'm curious... What are their student's standardized test scores, as well as high school records? I'm sure there's a pattern there that can describe some their…

Companies like ITT specifically target military service members because they are:

1) In their twenties and looking to start a career outside the military.

2) Eligible for a variety of loans, grants, and other financial services unavailable to the general public.

3) If they are still in the military, they will have much lower default rates as the military takes debt very seriously (as a representation of character really).

(IMO) none of these qualities are unfavorable to traditional institutions. Companies like ITT are 100% vultures.

source: many friends in the military

Re: California bans ITT tech from accepting new students

#107

Post by Blackthorn » Tue, Aug 30, 2016, 4:48 AM UTC

h4nkoslo wrote: post #55

One aspect of ITT and its ilk is that the students often only sign up so they can take out "education" loans for living expenses, with the class work as a very secondary concern.

You're gonna need to provide a citation for such a serious claim.

Re: California bans ITT tech from accepting new students

#108

Post by pkaye » Tue, Aug 30, 2016, 4:51 AM UTC

This caption pretty much captures what is wrong with ITT tech.

"Jorge Villalba, shown in 2015 in front of the ITT Technical Institute in Encinco, left the school owing about $150,000 in student loans."

How the heck does someone end up owing $150K for a basic education?

Re: California bans ITT tech from accepting new students

#109

Post by rtpg » Tue, Aug 30, 2016, 4:53 AM UTC

splicer wrote: post #41

iamdave wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me flip that around and offer that I've had "technical" recruiters fail their end of this transaction as well. One experience involved a recruiter who wanted a compete rewrite of a CV portion outlining a SQL project from planning to continuous implementation models I built. This on top of 8 years of other experience in data design and management. The recruiter wanted to pass on my resume because I had failed to i…

> refusing to hire a qualified electrical engineer because he didn't list AA Batteries on his resume LOL! It won't be long before the majority of EEs under 25 won't even know what an AA battery is. In fact, I bet it would be pretty hard today to find someone in their 20s who knows what a 9-volt is.

pedantic but you're off 10+ years. We still needed 9 volts in the 90s.

Re: California bans ITT tech from accepting new students

#110

Post by rtpg » Tue, Aug 30, 2016, 4:56 AM UTC

meowface wrote: post #30

bko wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard stories like that before. Serious question, what do those people actually do? Are they just so far removed from these general type of questions that they can not answer them or do they have no programming ability at all? It just strikes me as bizarre

For some, it could be anxiety. I sometimes choke on really simple questions in interviews that I know I could easily answer if I were home alone. I have anxiety issues in general, though.

I think it's also important that sometimes it can be misunderstanding the question.

I know it sounds silly because it's written clearly here, but in a spoken interview it's possible an interviewee can miss a detail and suddenly think they're faced with travelling salesmen. Or are worried about I/O

Of course in those situations, the "right" thing to do is ask for clarification, or think out loud. And an interviewer should make sure the interviewee is solving the right question (in the real world, people help each other).