Bravo, now let's ban the rest of the fake schools!
California bans ITT tech from accepting new students
81–90 of 325 posts
Re: California bans ITT tech from accepting new students
#82Earlier quoted context omitted.
I mean, that was also my experience with my degree from a major university. I told them I wanted to be a computer programmer, they said "Oh, you want a Computer Science major, then." I didn't realize until after graduating that I'd learned about electrical engineering and processor architecture and compiler design and lots and lots of math, but almost no actual, y'know, computer programming. Pretty much had to start…
But...if you learn all that stuff, isn't programming pretty easy? It's just specific abstractions on top of the fundamentals you already know... (I don't mean to be dismissive, I'm honestly mystified by your perspective here.)
I talked to a number of seniors majoring in computer science at a decent college not long ago - none of them knew what software version control was.
While, or right after, taking these theoretical courses in Java or graphics or whatnot, I would launch a project in that area to ground all that theory in something I could then manifest. I don't think this occurred to many of them, but to be fair, they are young and have been in school all their lives, and I went to class with a lot of (mostly non-programming) experience in the IT business already under my belt.
Re: California bans ITT tech from accepting new students
#83Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'd be interested to hear what you would expect as bare minimums for a "basic entry level technical role." I've heard of recruiters being dumbfounded at CS grads not being able to code FizzBuzz and to be honest I can't believe it.
My tech lead was bemoaning a round of applicants for a senior position, where some of the candidates couldn't even conceptually 'get' FizzBuzz, let alone code it.
Someone I know (not me, I swear!) was excited to interview an experienced candidate with a fantastic résumé for a test lead position.
Said candidate did not know what a unit test was and could not figure out how to write one, even after the concept was explained.
I have no idea how this could ever happen.
Re: California bans ITT tech from accepting new students
#84Btw to avoid confusion I've seen happen when a new guy shows up in the workplace: ITT != IIT
ITT = ~University of Phoenix, everyone gets in
IIT = Elite programs in a variety of sciences, almost no one gets in
Re: California bans ITT tech from accepting new students
#85Are there any good ITT / University of Phoenix type schools? They all seem like scams. I don't count community colleges here, I know those can be very good. My wife went to one, got great education, was able to pay it by just budgeting money every month out of her part time work. Then switched to a 4 years univeristy, transfered credits and graduated with honors after 2 more years (with minimal loans). Would it be ha…
The quality of education varies between institutions. I graduated from DeVry a little over 10 years ago. I got a decent education (ABET accredited B.S. Computer Engineering Technology) and was able to put myself through school and get a good job. I could have done it a little cheaper in a state school and a lot cheaper with a community college, but for what it was I don't really have any regrets. My only critique is…
One attorney I know pursued several claims against scam schools a few years ago.
Of the schools he had investigated, he said DeVry was unusual because it was trying to operate like a real educational institution.
Federal loan money has distorted for-profit and non-profit institutions. But it's depressingly uncommon to find for-profit trade "schools" that actually care about educating students.
Re: California bans ITT tech from accepting new students
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've heard stories like that before. Serious question, what do those people actually do? Are they just so far removed from these general type of questions that they can not answer them or do they have no programming ability at all? It just strikes me as bizarre
Never-ending projects that never deliver, and management that never looks at the code. Also, cheating your way through college - which is basically a requirement for a lot of programs that offer a vertical learning curve, programs spoiled by the fact that many of the people who take a CS program have been hobbyist programmers for years. After the second semester, CS students divide into three groups: 1) stressed out…
Haha, the longer I stay in the software biz, the more I believe paula = "Brillant" to be a true story. The sad thing is, that there are tons of talented programmers out there who actually know what they are doing, getting rejected interview after interview because of "culture fit", while charlatans like paula BS and charm their way into job after job, trashing their projects and moving on to the next one as soon as their ruse is about to be uncovered.
Chalk it up to yet more evidence of how tech interviewing/hiring is utterly broken.
Re: California bans ITT tech from accepting new students
#87Earlier quoted context omitted.
I mean, that was also my experience with my degree from a major university. I told them I wanted to be a computer programmer, they said "Oh, you want a Computer Science major, then." I didn't realize until after graduating that I'd learned about electrical engineering and processor architecture and compiler design and lots and lots of math, but almost no actual, y'know, computer programming. Pretty much had to start…
But...if you learn all that stuff, isn't programming pretty easy? It's just specific abstractions on top of the fundamentals you already know... (I don't mean to be dismissive, I'm honestly mystified by your perspective here.)
All the stuff I mentioned has essentially zero application to writing a server script or a website backend or a commercial application, is the thing. It's like knowing car engines backwards and forwards, but never actually getting to drive one.
I should mention, also, that our programming exercises were in C++ exclusively, on the campus Unix system exclusively, and the only development environment we were ever officially taught was vi. Not even Vim. IDEs, debuggers, webcode, and GUI libraries were never mentioned. Hell, they didn't even teach us anything about CLI or vi beyond the absolute minimum needed to create a file, compile it, and run it. I spent some time trying to figure out how to just get a C++ compiler on my desktop so I wouldn't have to mess with vi anymore, with no help whatsoever from my classes.
I have never had to use C++ in my entire career since.
I've heard the same complaint from a lot of my classmates. The ones who were successful right out of school were the ones who were working on their own projects outside of class, and learning that way--which some people will say that I "obviously" should have been doing myself, but in my teenage naivete I assumed that the curriculum I was paying so much to receive would actually teach me what I needed to know.
Re: California bans ITT tech from accepting new students
#88Earlier quoted context omitted.
> refusing to hire a qualified electrical engineer because he didn't list AA Batteries on his resume LOL! It won't be long before the majority of EEs under 25 won't even know what an AA battery is. In fact, I bet it would be pretty hard today to find someone in their 20s who knows what a 9-volt is.
Are 9-volts not around anymore? I haven't seen one, but I don't use anything they used to be common in like toys and radios.
Many smoke detectors/alarms still use it. In Australia smoke detectors now have to be wired to the house but have a backup battery in case of a power failure.
Re: California bans ITT tech from accepting new students
#89Earlier quoted context omitted.
I mean, that was also my experience with my degree from a major university. I told them I wanted to be a computer programmer, they said "Oh, you want a Computer Science major, then." I didn't realize until after graduating that I'd learned about electrical engineering and processor architecture and compiler design and lots and lots of math, but almost no actual, y'know, computer programming. Pretty much had to start…
But...if you learn all that stuff, isn't programming pretty easy? It's just specific abstractions on top of the fundamentals you already know... (I don't mean to be dismissive, I'm honestly mystified by your perspective here.)
No. I have seen very bright people who really suck at coding and require a lot of hand holding. They are good general problems solvers and good at math but simply cannot get the engineering mechanics of coding right. Software development, especially large scale software development is a combination of engineering, design and crafting with long hours also put into rework and testing. It appears not everyone is suited to this process.