What about coding bootcamps? Aren't they worse? They try to make you a "coder" in a couple of months and promise people jobs if they finish the course. It sounds eerily the same thing as ITT...
California bans ITT tech from accepting new students
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Re: California bans ITT tech from accepting new students
#12At my last company we had a slew of ITT graduates apply for a role one time. I talked to probably 10 or so of them. They seemed to have received little to no educational value from their time at ITT. I assume they were all promised great jobs, but all of them were not remotely qualified to get even a basic entry level technical role. I felt terrible for them paying money for the "education" that they received.
I'd be interested to hear what you would expect as bare minimums for a "basic entry level technical role." I've heard of recruiters being dumbfounded at CS grads not being able to code FizzBuzz and to be honest I can't believe it.
I've personally interviewed applicants for a "senior developer" position who claimed on their resume 5+ years of jobs where their primary job was supposedly programming, and who could not come up with code to sum the odd integers from 1 to n.
Re: California bans ITT tech from accepting new students
#13At my last company we had a slew of ITT graduates apply for a role one time. I talked to probably 10 or so of them. They seemed to have received little to no educational value from their time at ITT. I assume they were all promised great jobs, but all of them were not remotely qualified to get even a basic entry level technical role. I felt terrible for them paying money for the "education" that they received.
One of my best direct reports came from ITT. In his case, I'm pretty sure he'd have been successful having gone anywhere, but at least ITT didn't prevent his future success.
Re: California bans ITT tech from accepting new students
#14Does anyone have references to more specific accusations against ITT? There are lots of vague claims in the article, but the only semi-specific ones -- misleading students about program quality and pushing them into irresponsible loans -- could just as easily be laid at the feet of public and private nonprofit colleges. I have no particular reason to trust or distrust ITT. But it strikes me as a trade school that pre…
>Does anyone have references to more specific accusations against ITT?
Here's 101 reviews that rate the institution 1 and 2 stars: https://www.consumeraffairs.com/education/itt.html
The Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB) filed a lawsuit against ITT Educational Services, Inc., accusing the for-profit college chain of predatory student lending. The CFPB alleges that ITT exploited its students and pushed them into high-cost private student loans that were very likely to end in default. The CFPB is seeking restitution for victims, a civil fine, and an injunction against the company.
http://www.consumerfinance.gov/about-us/newsroom/cfpb-sues-f...
A recently unsealed whistleblower lawsuit against for-profit college chain ITT Technical Institute accuses the school of operating a “systematic scheme” to defraud the government by using a litany of abusive, deceptive practices to enroll students.
https://consumerist.com/2016/01/21/whistleblower-lawsuit-acc...
For-profit educational giant ITT Technical Institute inflated its job-placement rates by counting “any job (graduates got) that somehow involved the use of a computer” and misled prospective students about the quality of its programs as part of its high-pressure recruitment tactics, the Massachusetts Attorney General alleged in a lawsuit announced Monday.
http://www.whio.com/news/education/lawsuit-claims-itt-tech-e...
Re: California bans ITT tech from accepting new students
#15Does anyone know which other national institutions something like this may affect?
Virtually all of them. Their main interest is the Federal student loan program. Vets are a special target.
> The emergency order, which takes effect Sept. 1, comes one day after the U.S. Department of Education banned ITT from enrolling new students who use federal financial aid.
Re: California bans ITT tech from accepting new students
#16This site is absolutely unusable without an ad blocker..
Well, I read the article and don't have an ad blocker. People tend to take this complaint about ads way too far.
Re: California bans ITT tech from accepting new students
#17Earlier quoted context omitted.
> so I want to know if it's being attacked for legitimate or political reasons. Why would California attack ITT for political reasons? The problem with ITT is the same problem with all such schools - profit above all else. Whether their students learn anything is secondary.
Proponents of taxpayer funded education, and unions, frequently attack high performing private schools, at least here in Australasia. That said, it doesn't sound like this is one of the high performing schools.
There is a very big difference between a private university and a for-profit school.
Re: California bans ITT tech from accepting new students
#18Are there any good ITT / University of Phoenix type schools? They all seem like scams.
I don't count community colleges here, I know those can be very good. My wife went to one, got great education, was able to pay it by just budgeting money every month out of her part time work. Then switched to a 4 years univeristy, transfered credits and graduated with honors after 2 more years (with minimal loans).
Would it be hard for any of these for-profit school to also do a good job?
Re: California bans ITT tech from accepting new students
#19At my last company we had a slew of ITT graduates apply for a role one time. I talked to probably 10 or so of them. They seemed to have received little to no educational value from their time at ITT. I assume they were all promised great jobs, but all of them were not remotely qualified to get even a basic entry level technical role. I felt terrible for them paying money for the "education" that they received.
I'd be interested to hear what you would expect as bare minimums for a "basic entry level technical role." I've heard of recruiters being dumbfounded at CS grads not being able to code FizzBuzz and to be honest I can't believe it.
Let me flip that around and offer that I've had "technical" recruiters fail their end of this transaction as well.
One experience involved a recruiter who wanted a compete rewrite of a CV portion outlining a SQL project from planning to continuous implementation models I built.
This on top of 8 years of other experience in data design and management.
The recruiter wanted to pass on my resume because I had failed to indicate my experience with flat CSV files and thought I needed more experience with them as a "highly specialized software stack".
I decided not to pursue that company further, maybe it was ego getting in the way but insisting I rewrite a technical resume covering 10 years of database experience over the omission of operating with flat files seemed like refusing to hire a qualified electrical engineer because he didn't list AA Batteries on his resume.
Re: California bans ITT tech from accepting new students
#20What about coding bootcamps? Aren't they worse? They try to make you a "coder" in a couple of months and promise people jobs if they finish the course. It sounds eerily the same thing as ITT...
One of the recent members of my team was from a bootcamp, she's been a real joy to work with and has mad some decent contributions. Bootcamps may serve their purpose but like with anything else YMMV.