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Hunter S. Thompson on Finding Your Purpose (1958)

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Re: Hunter S. Thompson on Finding Your Purpose (1958)

#171

Post by scalio »

digi_owl wrote: post #93
Fraterkes wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a large part of the problem is that when people talk about finding "happiness" they are actually talking about "winning at life". Which is impossible of course. Every time that you do something that you think will make you happy, and you ask yourself 'is this it?' you allready know the answer, because someone who's satisfied wouldn't ask 'is this it?'. And if you spend years thinking about "finding happiness"…

Wonder how much of that can be blamed on consumerist marketing, and its drive to amp our desires.

I think a lot would be your answer. Not strictly new as a concept, kids get raised to hunt happiness. Every stupid action movie that ends with a big party, celebrities whose job it has become to look happy, every ad promoting x because it will make you a happier person...

Kids get raised being told they can buy stuff that'll make them happy, and it's only when you become an adult and get a bunch of real world thrown your way that you get the chance to realize how much crap that is actually worth. And yet the majority of the western population doesn't seem to understand that you can't buy happiness. Sure, it's nice to have central heating and a full fridge, but these would make less fortunate people extremely happy! For a while, until the pipes bust and you need to make the guy come 'round to fix them.

Still, heating and fridging have at least some intrinsic value. They keep you from freezing over during sleep and keep your food from rotting. But everything else, after the initial surge of serotonin or whatever other hormone, just becomes part of the annoyances that keep you going throughout the day. At best, it blends into the furniture, so that you forget you have it and buy it again.

There is something seriously wrong with our lifestyle, but it's not clear to me how it can be fixed peacefully. Or violently. Or at all. Because human nature led to this, and how are we supposed to overcome that?

Re: Hunter S. Thompson on Finding Your Purpose (1958)

#172

Post by AstralStorm »

alanwatts wrote: post #132
Toidiu wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's necessary bad to choose a life that's ordinary. In fact he says that if you do then simply convince yourself that you had to. It's your life and you can always readjust your goals to match your circumstances.

There's an old Zen saying that goes: "Before enlightenment, chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood, carry water." And another which reads: "Miraculous power, marvelous activity. Drawing water, chopping wood."

Worthless but happy is not a worthy goal.

Verify any approach to life by generalisation: what would happen if everyone followed it?

The Buddhist approach leads to stagnation.

Re: Hunter S. Thompson on Finding Your Purpose (1958)

#173

Post by AstralStorm »

icebraining wrote: post #125
jomamaxx wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean: 'Responsibility'. See those kids you have? No, don't have a choice but to raise them to the best of your ability.

The conformist part is believing that to raise kids to the best of one's ability requires one to do something one doesn’t want to do for the rest of one's life.

From a certain point of view, it is always true. You will never get a second chance to raise any specific child.

Re: Hunter S. Thompson on Finding Your Purpose (1958)

#174

Post by AstralStorm »

marknutter wrote: post #147
losteverything wrote: post #124

Frost's The Road Not Taken, originally written as a joke, is an easy frame to view my life, imho "And indeed, that IS the question: whether to float with the tide, or to swim for a goal. " is just the choice Thompson postulates. To me, I now believe the overarching purpose of life is to have children. Two distinct groups: those with children and those to help those with children. Parenting (becoming a parent) puts a…

> To me, I now believe the overarching purpose of life is to have children. Two distinct groups: those with children and those to help those with children. I reached the same conclusion myself very early on when it became very obvious that it's the most logical conclusion to reach based on the evidence we currently have about the "meaning of life". From a biological perspective, the meaning of life is to stay alive p…

Raising children is not enough. You should also provide them a future. This generalises to providing everyone a future as best as you can.

Re: Hunter S. Thompson on Finding Your Purpose (1958)

#175

Post by marknutter »

AstralStorm wrote: post #174
marknutter wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To me, I now believe the overarching purpose of life is to have children. Two distinct groups: those with children and those to help those with children. I reached the same conclusion myself very early on when it became very obvious that it's the most logical conclusion to reach based on the evidence we currently have about the "meaning of life". From a biological perspective, the meaning of life is to stay alive p…

Raising children is not enough. You should also provide them a future. This generalises to providing everyone a future as best as you can.

If everyone focused on raising their own children properly they wouldn't need to provide a future for everyone else. I'm focusing on my kids.

Re: Hunter S. Thompson on Finding Your Purpose (1958)

#176

Post by scalio »

Kenji wrote: post #118
Fraterkes wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a large part of the problem is that when people talk about finding "happiness" they are actually talking about "winning at life". Which is impossible of course. Every time that you do something that you think will make you happy, and you ask yourself 'is this it?' you allready know the answer, because someone who's satisfied wouldn't ask 'is this it?'. And if you spend years thinking about "finding happiness"…

I noticed that a lot of people (including myself) condition happiness on something. For example "when I get my degree, I'll be happy" or "if I get in a relationship with this person, I'll be happy" or whatever their desire is. However, such events always lie in the future: You always postpone your happiness and never actualize it. And even when the desires are actually satisfied, they quickly stop being a source of h…

I think this has to do with a certain short-sightedness concerning achievements, purchases, general life decisions... Is there a particularly good reason why a degree would make you happy? It'll land you a good post at a high-paying company, I'm sure. But what will you do with your money? Or are you the type of person who takes pleasure in big, positive numbers as their account balance?

I often get on peoples' nerves by asking 'why?', until they realize something I've seen coming two hours earlier not because I'm a genius, but simply because I'm used to thinking ahead and exploring the possibilities. I've been doing that long enough (was raised that way) so that it happens automatically and very, very quickly.

Re: Hunter S. Thompson on Finding Your Purpose (1958)

#177

Post by 3minus1 »

devilsavocado wrote: post #151
3minus1 wrote: post #115

He's really taking that Shakespeare quote out of context. It's about suicide not striving towards goals.

Like most Shakespeare, a single interpretation rarely does it justice. I think it ties in with Thompson's idea of either floating with the tide or swimming towards a goal very well. The soliloquy it is taken from is about Hamlet debating whether to avenge his father's murder (swimming) or not (tide), and whether to continue living (swimming), or just accept death (tide).

you have it reversed. The choice is whether to continue being tormented by all life's degradations and pains (floating) or end them yourself by committing suicide (swimming)

Re: Hunter S. Thompson on Finding Your Purpose (1958)

#178

Post by zjg »

jomamaxx wrote: post #20
Fezzik wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Said slightly differently: "If you end up with a boring miserable life because you listened to your mom, your dad, your teacher, your priest, or some guy on television telling you how to do your shit, then you deserve it." - Frank Zappa

Zappa preacher saying 'don't follow anyone's advice except mine'? It's definitely fair to remind people that they have options, but most people want stability, family, to watch the game, enjoy the sunset, and derive little joy from shaking things up and wagging it in other people's faces. Moreover - most people recognize that life is just as much a responsibility as it is an opportunity. The 'Rock N Roll' movement wa…

is trashing hotel rooms really a form of self-actualization though? maybe for some, but i think that's more a form of letting out one's rage / frustrations that results from missing the other parts of the pyramid of needs.

to me zappa's message isn't as irresponsible as you make it sound. i think a person can self-actualize and still be responsible and stable. for some, those things may even go hand in hand.

Re: Hunter S. Thompson on Finding Your Purpose (1958)

#179

Post by triangleman »

AstralStorm wrote: post #164
FungalRaincloud wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my personal experience, I agree, it's a misunderstanding of what happiness is, that causes people to miss the mark when trying to find it. Happiness isn't something you find, it's something you make. The universe is meaningless, it exists, devoid of any reason of its own, and yet, it exists. Your job, when trying to become a happy person, is to find your own meaning, and work at that, until you master it.

This way lies hedonism.

In what way? Are you sure, based on what the parent wrote? Perhaps he was not clear about the difference between "finding meaning" and "finding your own meaning", but few people are clear about that. A search for meaning, personal or otherwise, does not necessarily lead to hedonism--to get there you have to throw out all kinds of useful things, and it doesn't really get you very far, and eventually life loses meaning and you go somewhere else.

In short, I don't think telling someone to find their own meaning would necessarily lead to hedonism.

Re: Hunter S. Thompson on Finding Your Purpose (1958)

#180

Post by k-mcgrady »

AstralStorm wrote: post #172
alanwatts wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's an old Zen saying that goes: "Before enlightenment, chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood, carry water." And another which reads: "Miraculous power, marvelous activity. Drawing water, chopping wood."

Worthless but happy is not a worthy goal. Verify any approach to life by generalisation: what would happen if everyone followed it? The Buddhist approach leads to stagnation.

> "The Buddhist approach leads to stagnation."

And that's a problem why?

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