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Scammed By A Silicon Valley Startup

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Re: Scammed By A Silicon Valley Startup

#331

This is Charlie. I met the CEO (not sharing his name, though it is in this thread) through his brother in law, Jay. Jay worked with me at a prior company. He was a data scientist and factual. He mentioned his brother in law came to Silicon Valley to do a startup having made some money as an investment banker. As we talked, the CEO stated he is putting in $2M to fund the startup in November. In December, with $400k or…

Appreciate you posting here. Looks like a bunch of you were snowed. Hope you get your money back someday.

I think one bit from Penny's article is particularly spot-on, and I've experienced it first-hand, as I'm sure many of us have: "Some may question why I took the job in the first place or continued to work for them when there were so many red flags. To those people I say this: there is also a default human condition to not give up."

Shame that some people prey on that human condition.

Re: Scammed By A Silicon Valley Startup

#332
Under the assumption that the story is true, thing that I cannot assume from a blog post, this should be notified to the authorities more than be posted on HN.

Also notice that before any actual confirmation or official investigation, pointing fingers trying to find companies that match the description could be a criminal offense as well as you could damage the reputation of totally fine companies.

Re: Scammed By A Silicon Valley Startup

#333

The fake wire transfer receipt is fraud. That's a criminal offense. Have a talk with the local DA. California has a large prison system, with cell space available. I've never heard of a startup going that far.

I have, in the 90s bubble. Founder went to jail for securities fraud. A friend of mine never got paid for a lot of work.

Re: Scammed By A Silicon Valley Startup

#334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pay people in regular ways through regular channels. Seriously, though, ADP delivers paystubs. If they were using ADP, they would have gotten paystubs.

When a company has just started, they may have not set this up. You can invoice the company. It's not a big deal. Again - of all flags - lack of pay stubs is the least of them if it's just a garage startup with 3-ish people. The actual exchange of money is 100x a stronger indicator of health than the presence of a stub.

Then set it up when you start hiring people.

There is absolutely no excuse for not doing this. None.

Re: Scammed By A Silicon Valley Startup

#335
post #14

Welcome to the club. It's pretty much a rite of passage here to spend some time with a psychopath VC, a completely self absorbed CTO with a rich investor dad that fuels his fantasies, or an idiotic CEO with an ego problem, and to pay the price for it (just time if you're lucky, time+money if you're not). I've encountered this myself several times (down to the CEO using hire fast fire fast as a mantra), and judging fr…

> a psychopath VC, a completely self absorbed CTO with a rich investor dad that fuels his fantasies, or an idiotic CEO with an ego problem, and to pay the price for it

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cluster_B_personality_disorder...

For some reason we are not educated about this. We learn it the hard way by being taken in with what seems a good opportunity, then getting abused and then going our own way. We naively believe people empathise for others in the mistaken idea that there is some semblance of 'compassion' in everyone.

Even if we have gone through the mill several times we may not be educated as to what is only going on. You have to be done over by someone at the extreme end of the spectrum of personality disorder to understand what really goes on with the tyrants and bullies that frequently own companies, start-up or otherwise. We even elect these 'personality disorder' types to high office without anyone pointing out that they are not fit for the role due to having these psychopath tendencies.

This really does have to be a regulatory issue as those that cannot think through the consequences of their actions or empathise with others or understand the harm they do need to be rendered powerless. Otherwise they will not learn their lesson and go on to waste yet more lives. They can do so near indefinitely, taking people on a ride for six months or more before their victims cotton on to what is happening.

There is a second problem in that the people with these personality disorders really do attract others. Cult leaders do it, to attract others with personality problems of their own, elsewhere on the spectrum. For instance, in this case, marketing. What type of person does marketing in the first place? What leads them to believe they have the secret sauce to market the product they know nothing about? There is some self-belief going on there, some belief that isn't grounded in a strong product that the customer-base will 'market' using word-of-mouth. Sure there may be some good experience and education that can be brought to the problem but often there is not.

It is important to learn the 'tells' - as other commentators have noted it is how people treat restaurant staff that says it all with these rogues. Also the 'there is no I in team' really does matter - do they say 'we' or 'I'? Sometimes we overlook these 'tells' for reasons we invent - maybe they have were brought up that way... We give them excuses for their behaviour. We keep our anger at them to ourselves and don't burn our own bridges by letting that anger out.

It is a pity that most people only get 'lightly burned' in these situations and not fully toasted. Only when you get fully toasted can you work it out properly and end up knowing about the rogue personality types and how toxic they are.

Re: Scammed By A Silicon Valley Startup

#336
post #55

I've dealt with late payroll before and the fear, uncertainty, and stress really sucked. I was even considering offering the company a 50% haircut on the wages that I rightfully earned already just so the stress would go away. Is there any bank or payroll company that offers a wage escrow service? As in, the company pays X months of wages in advance into a per-employee escrow account that's FDIC insured, and the empl…

It's a good thing you didn't go for the 50% haircut. I did that once many years ago & it backfired horribly. I got around 40% in the end - dragged out over 8 months - and the MD used my 'willingness' to take the haircut as a sign that I knew that I didn't deserve the full amount and hadn't really earned it. He's still merrily scamming away all these years later I hear as well.

Re: Scammed By A Silicon Valley Startup

#337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally second this. Particularly look at: 1 How they treat their customers 2 How they treat their affiliates 3 How they encourage their affiliates to treat their customers.

How they treat wait staff in a restaurant is often extremely illuminating.

Since it comes down to "is this CEO a psychopath", most of the classic red flags can be seen quite soon. E.g. charm, lack of history, quick rage.

Re: Scammed By A Silicon Valley Startup

#338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pay people in regular ways through regular channels. Seriously, though, ADP delivers paystubs. If they were using ADP, they would have gotten paystubs.

When a company has just started, they may have not set this up. You can invoice the company. It's not a big deal. Again - of all flags - lack of pay stubs is the least of them if it's just a garage startup with 3-ish people. The actual exchange of money is 100x a stronger indicator of health than the presence of a stub.

> Again - of all flags - lack of pay stubs is the least of them

Its not the least, though it may be less than just being late on payroll. Posted paydays, of a certain minimum frequency, and timely payment on those paydays is a bare minimum legal requirement in most jurisdictions for which there are generally fairly significant liabilities that attach for failure. [0] A business that fails this in any broad way (for lots of employees and/or for multiple pay periods) is seriously and fundamentally broken.

(OTOH, tax withholding and lots of the other things that go on paystubs are similar bare minimum legal requirements with significant liabilities for failures, and if you are doing them correctly in the first place, actually providing paystubs is trivial -- the hard part is doing the required things that end up getting reflected on paystubs. So missing paystubs is at least nearly as big of a red flag as late payroll.)

[0] In California, for instance, failure to either post paydays meeting the legal requirements or to pay on those posted paydays as required by law is a crime (misdemeanor) by the employer. http://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/faq_paydays.htm

Re: Scammed By A Silicon Valley Startup

#340
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just look at the blog too. I'm not sure who thought that a blog post entitled "10 WAYS TO SURVIVE AT WORK WITHOUT SLEEP" would be a hit with job seekers. (Not to mention that 100% of their blog content -- 7 posts -- was posted 3 days ago)

10 WAYS TO SURVIVE AT WORK WITHOUT SLEEP: www.wrkriot.com/blog/2016/8/26/10-ways-to-survive-at-work-without-sleep Guess employees are the target audience for this post.

Yeah, but shouldn't all 10 steps be "find a new job"?
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