Live data from Hacker News

Seven Puzzles You Think You Must Not Have Heard Correctly (2006) [pdf]

math.dartmouth.edu

51–60 of 220 posts

Re: Seven Puzzles You Think You Must Not Have Heard Correctly (2006) [pdf]

#51

One that I heard last week: There is an 8x8 checkerboard in a room with a coin placed on each square. Each coin is either facing heads or tails up, and the face is determined randomly. Before you can inspect the board, a "master" comes in, picks a square of interest, and must make a manipulation to the board by flipping one of the 64 coins. He then exits the room. You are now allowed to enter, and must read out which…

[deleted]

Re: Seven Puzzles You Think You Must Not Have Heard Correctly (2006) [pdf]

#52
post #17

SPOILER 1 Names in boxes I don't understand how this works. The answer says it works to a certain percentage if there are no cycles longer than 50. But even if chance has it that there are two cycles of length 50. Then it seems the chance would be very large that one of the 100 prisoners would en up in the "wrong" loop and thus not find their name?

I don't understand the answer at all. Are they suggesting that the prisoners have somehow labeled the boxes? Or do they agree to assign names to the boxes via some other way - like make an alphabetic list of prisoners and assume that is the order of the "names on the boxes"? I suppose I just answered my own question, but I'm still not sure ;-)

Every prisoner assigns every box a random name from the list. Boxes cannot be modified in any way, so every prisoner has to do it on their own. The (unexplained) assumption here is that each prisoner can do that somehow, either in their head or on a piece of paper. It doesn't matter that every prisoner has their own unique assignment of names to boxes.

The crucial part here is that it's not guaranteed to work - but it gives prisoners 30% chance to survive, as opposed to some infinitesimally small number if each picks 50 boxes on random.

Re: Seven Puzzles You Think You Must Not Have Heard Correctly (2006) [pdf]

#53
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The wording of the problem is "anything sent through the mail will be stolen unless it is enclosed in a padlocked box".

Jan constructs an enormous box around the entire country of Kleptopia, and places his own padlock on it from the inside. Then he mails the ring with no additional security measures. The problem is fatally flawed by not explicitly stating that boxes locked with padlocks are also not stolen, despite not being enclosed in a padlocked box.

Jan takes a normal box and locks it. He declares the space enclosed by the box to be the "outside," and the world to be "inside."

Re: Seven Puzzles You Think You Must Not Have Heard Correctly (2006) [pdf]

#55

Thank god I could solve "Love in Kleptopia". Would have been embarrassing being a founder of a security company.

Interesting to me that there is an analogy with a 1000 year old puzzle. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox,_goose_and_bag_of_beans_pu...

There isn't really an analogy here, it just seems like it.

The apparent similarity between these two is due to there being multiple trips in both -- across the river in one, and through the mail in the other. But the reason for the multiple trips are entirely dissimilar, and so the similarity is purely superficial.

Re: Seven Puzzles You Think You Must Not Have Heard Correctly (2006) [pdf]

#56
post #40

The 'dot-town suicides' is a more general version of a puzzle I know, "The Island with Blue-Eyed People". The solution is an induction, which is unusual in these kinds of problems.

Why can't the visitor say "There are X red, X blue, and 1 yellow?" No one knows about the yellow, thinks it is themself, they all commit suicide on the spot.

There's a discrepancy between the number of visible blues and the number given. Say the person is a blue and doesn't know it. They can count b-1 blues on everyone else. Hearing "r reds, b blues, 1 yellow," he knows he must be either blue or yellow. He doesn't know which. Everyone survives.

Edit: had a paren instead of opening quote.

Re: Seven Puzzles You Think You Must Not Have Heard Correctly (2006) [pdf]

#57
post #17

SPOILER 1 Names in boxes I don't understand how this works. The answer says it works to a certain percentage if there are no cycles longer than 50. But even if chance has it that there are two cycles of length 50. Then it seems the chance would be very large that one of the 100 prisoners would en up in the "wrong" loop and thus not find their name?

I don't understand the answer at all. Are they suggesting that the prisoners have somehow labeled the boxes? Or do they agree to assign names to the boxes via some other way - like make an alphabetic list of prisoners and assume that is the order of the "names on the boxes"? I suppose I just answered my own question, but I'm still not sure ;-)

Yeah, they memorize their own random ordering. Alphabetic is risky because the warden might guess that strategy and purposefully set up the boxes so it doesn't work.

Re: Seven Puzzles You Think You Must Not Have Heard Correctly (2006) [pdf]

#58

Thank god I could solve "Love in Kleptopia". Would have been embarrassing being a founder of a security company.

Assuming cryptography exists in Kleptopia, couldn't he use a padlock with a combination and transmit this electronically?

Two points -- one, that's outside of the problem statement, so no, you can't use cryptography. Two, public-key cryptography uses an exact analogy of the physical-world method, so if you have access to a cryptographic solution you've already solved the problem.

Re: Seven Puzzles You Think You Must Not Have Heard Correctly (2006) [pdf]

#60
post #50

One that I heard last week: There is an 8x8 checkerboard in a room with a coin placed on each square. Each coin is either facing heads or tails up, and the face is determined randomly. Before you can inspect the board, a "master" comes in, picks a square of interest, and must make a manipulation to the board by flipping one of the 64 coins. He then exits the room. You are now allowed to enter, and must read out which…

I think you're referring to this puzzle: http://datagenetics.com/blog/december12014/index.html The version you gave is missing information and so can't be solved as stated.

I had to read that like 11 times before I started to get the underlying principle. That's amazing.
Post reply on HN