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Why Electric Cars Will Be Here Sooner Than You Think

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Re: Why Electric Cars Will Be Here Sooner Than You Think

#71

Post by Retric »

kylec wrote: post #17

I was talking to my father a few weeks ago about electric cars, and I wanted to quantify how much going electric would save him so I ran some numbers. Where he lives gas is currently somewhere around $2.20/gallon. His car gets around 30mpg combined, so he's paying ~$0.073/mile. Tesla's website contains a "charging estimator" for the Model S, which estimates a cost of $12.04 for a total charge of 300 miles in a 90D. I…

$0.22/kWh is crazy high I pay under 10c/kWh, you can install solar and save a lot of money at that rate. Further, 2.2$/gallon well below average for the last 10 years, where exactly does he live?

PS: There does seem to be some serious price gouging going on. "In Sacramento, a family using 500 kilowatt hours of electricity last October was charged $58." 58/500 = 11.6cents. http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-electric-bills-d... That same 500kWh would be 47.07$ from vernon or 116.42$ from SDG&E.

Re: Why Electric Cars Will Be Here Sooner Than You Think

#72

Post by lostapathy »

LoSboccacc wrote: post #69
kylec wrote: post #17

I was talking to my father a few weeks ago about electric cars, and I wanted to quantify how much going electric would save him so I ran some numbers. Where he lives gas is currently somewhere around $2.20/gallon. His car gets around 30mpg combined, so he's paying ~$0.073/mile. Tesla's website contains a "charging estimator" for the Model S, which estimates a cost of $12.04 for a total charge of 300 miles in a 90D. I…

All that assuming residential recharge. Power stations with fast revharge will need a profit, so expect energy there cost more.

Not necessarily. Often, large commercial electric consumers pay less per kilowatt than you'd pay at home.

Re: Why Electric Cars Will Be Here Sooner Than You Think

#73

Post by nil_is_me »

kylec wrote: post #36
tjbiddle wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But of course, this is specific to your father's scenario. A quick Google search shows the average cost of electricity in the US actually is $0.12/kWh.

Of course, but I would encourage anyone that's thinking about getting an electric car to figure out what they're paying for electricity and run the numbers to understand what the cost impact is. To add another anecdata point, I live in the San Jose area and I just checked my latest PG&E bill; It's kind of complicated because there's a weird tier system, but I paid a weighted average of $0.2095/kWh last month. However…

If you're a heavy user (probably with an EV) you can sign up for a Time of Use rate plan, which will give you access to lower rates for off-peak charging (and higher peak rates).

Re: Why Electric Cars Will Be Here Sooner Than You Think

#74

Post by [deleted] »

kylec wrote: post #36
tjbiddle wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But of course, this is specific to your father's scenario. A quick Google search shows the average cost of electricity in the US actually is $0.12/kWh.

Of course, but I would encourage anyone that's thinking about getting an electric car to figure out what they're paying for electricity and run the numbers to understand what the cost impact is. To add another anecdata point, I live in the San Jose area and I just checked my latest PG&E bill; It's kind of complicated because there's a weird tier system, but I paid a weighted average of $0.2095/kWh last month. However…

[deleted]

Re: Why Electric Cars Will Be Here Sooner Than You Think

#75

Post by drzaiusapelord »

kylec wrote: post #17

I was talking to my father a few weeks ago about electric cars, and I wanted to quantify how much going electric would save him so I ran some numbers. Where he lives gas is currently somewhere around $2.20/gallon. His car gets around 30mpg combined, so he's paying ~$0.073/mile. Tesla's website contains a "charging estimator" for the Model S, which estimates a cost of $12.04 for a total charge of 300 miles in a 90D. I…

That's on top of the added cost of an electric vehicle. Worse, how does it handle the Chicago winter? I'll be running the heater 6 months out of the year, which is a drain on the battery, but on a ICE-based car, it just uses excess heat with no cost on fuel. So its tough to figure out what my real cost per mile will be in the winter.

I think TCO is going to be difficult to calculate for many people, especially when you're on tiered electric pricing that punishes heavy users. Electrics may have an uphill battle to popular adoption if the PR narrative is 'save money' instead of the other benefits of electric. I can't imagine the Model 3 edging out the Civic or Fit and other cars for TCO-minded consumers.

The only Telsa owner I know here in Chicago told me that his electric bill went up about how much he was spending on gas before. I suspect this is going to be the case for many.

Re: Why Electric Cars Will Be Here Sooner Than You Think

#76

Post by Scea91 »

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #75
kylec wrote: post #17

I was talking to my father a few weeks ago about electric cars, and I wanted to quantify how much going electric would save him so I ran some numbers. Where he lives gas is currently somewhere around $2.20/gallon. His car gets around 30mpg combined, so he's paying ~$0.073/mile. Tesla's website contains a "charging estimator" for the Model S, which estimates a cost of $12.04 for a total charge of 300 miles in a 90D. I…

That's on top of the added cost of an electric vehicle. Worse, how does it handle the Chicago winter? I'll be running the heater 6 months out of the year, which is a drain on the battery, but on a ICE-based car, it just uses excess heat with no cost on fuel. So its tough to figure out what my real cost per mile will be in the winter. I think TCO is going to be difficult to calculate for many people, especially when y…

Doesn't the electromotor also produce excess heat that can be used in a similar way?

Re: Why Electric Cars Will Be Here Sooner Than You Think

#77

Post by ProAm »

Retric wrote: post #71
kylec wrote: post #17

I was talking to my father a few weeks ago about electric cars, and I wanted to quantify how much going electric would save him so I ran some numbers. Where he lives gas is currently somewhere around $2.20/gallon. His car gets around 30mpg combined, so he's paying ~$0.073/mile. Tesla's website contains a "charging estimator" for the Model S, which estimates a cost of $12.04 for a total charge of 300 miles in a 90D. I…

$0.22/kWh is crazy high I pay under 10c/kWh, you can install solar and save a lot of money at that rate. Further, 2.2$/gallon well below average for the last 10 years, where exactly does he live? PS: There does seem to be some serious price gouging going on. "In Sacramento, a family using 500 kilowatt hours of electricity last October was charged $58." 58/500 = 11.6cents. http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-e…

Do you take into consideration the cost of installing solar and future maintenance costs in an estimate like this? Im asking honestly because Im not sure if people do?

Re: Why Electric Cars Will Be Here Sooner Than You Think

#78

Post by eric_the_read »

lostapathy wrote: post #72
LoSboccacc wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All that assuming residential recharge. Power stations with fast revharge will need a profit, so expect energy there cost more.

Not necessarily. Often, large commercial electric consumers pay less per kilowatt than you'd pay at home.

One major reason for this is that the load for these users is usually constant and predictable. The load at a fast charging station would necessarily be spiky and most likely bimodal (going to/from work, I'd imagine), so their cost wouldn't go down as much as, say, a steel forge with massive arc furnaces.

Re: Why Electric Cars Will Be Here Sooner Than You Think

#79

Post by ProAm »

will_hughes wrote: post #14
pdwetz wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you renting and don't have access to a plug. Or want to go on a weekend trip. Electric is interesting, but nothing more as a result for me personally.

These are common arguments. But really it comes down to your last comment "Electric is interesting, but nothing more as a result for me personally" Okay, fine. There's solutions for all the other stuff.

But those solutions cost money too, many people A) dont have access to a garage and/or B) a garage with 220 AC in it. That changes charging time significantly, and installing 220 is expensive. There are solutions but it all adds to the price of an electric car.

Re: Why Electric Cars Will Be Here Sooner Than You Think

#80

Post by eric_the_read »

foobarian wrote: post #38
white-flame wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish I had saved a link to it, but a study on affordability marked an average earning household of about $35k/yr as being able to afford an $8,000 car. In order to be able to afford the "average" $33,000 car took a $90k/yr income.

My household income is way more than that and I still found it painful to buy a $20k car. I find it hard to understand why people buy cars at such high relative prices.

For the vehicles I've been looking at recently (minivans, light trucks), buying a 2-3 year old vehicle with ~35k-50k miles doesn't make sense-- I was seeing savings of at most $2k-$3k, and over the (minimum) 10-year lifespan of the vehicle for me, having a warranty and complete service records was much more appealing.
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