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What it feels like to be the last gen to remember life before the internet

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Re: What it feels like to be the last gen to remember life before the internet

#51
post #46

I was reflecting on this the other day. How do we communicate now? What are the key features of how we communicate that were not available before. Maybe it's the combination of the following. 1. Written, using language++ (by this I mean we communicate primarily by conventional writing, enhanced with emoticons, photos, audio clips). 2. Lightweight (it's no effort to write). 3. Concurrent (multiple communication going…

On you first two points, I agree. I don't think the effect of the Internet on reading and writing can be exaggerated. Pre-Internet, the only writing I ever did was when encouraged by parents (such as to penpals I didn't really want anyway) or for schoolwork. I suspect this would have been true for most. And written English was a more formal mode of the language that barely reflected day to day conversations at all. N…

Yes, I agree, the shift from reading to writing is pronounced, and probably profound.

After the Internet went mainstream, for the first time in history, large number of people write every day, people who wouldn't have, in comparable social station, have written in the past. Who wrote in the past? Pupils, students, lawyers and some other professionals. Most, would have stopped writing prose after finishing school or university. Moreover, very few would have written voluntarily, only as part of a job, or as part of education. For the majority of the population, all voluntary, fun, hedonic communication (in the narrow, everyday sense) was spoken. This is now very different.

I used to think that writing makes us smarter (because it asks us to think carefully, to look at the writing from many perspectives, to try and produce truth, since writing is preserved and likely seen by others), and so had high hopes for humanity ...

... then came Twitter ... and I realised that it's not writing as such that has these effects, but rather social expectations (as for example embodied in the career structure of scientists) in concert with writing that account for those positive effects.

Re: What it feels like to be the last gen to remember life before the internet

#52
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now everyone see's themselves as an informed authority, after a few minutes googling and reading a wikipedia page. I think today's self-proclaimed informed authority compares pretty well to yesterday's hobbyists, at least. Access to information today is just so much better than it used to be. I've got a passing interest in ancient history, and I own a number of books, but I'm hardly an expert. This morning I watched…

Lindybeige is a fantastic explainer when it comes to that sort of thing - it also highlights how quickly a person can go from knowing nothing to practically hobbyist levels of knowledge in 20 minutes post internet

I was wondering if anyone would catch the reference :)

Re: What it feels like to be the last gen to remember life before the internet

#53
post #18
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Phones are important but without the internet they are just phones. Even with GPS, you would have to carry the whole world (or a significant amount of it where you live) as a map within your phone. Early pre-"Smart Phone" PDAs did exactly that (with external GPS receiver). Information wise, Google changed everything. There was a before, where you the information was there, but you couldn't find it and an after, where…

I do exactly that. My phone has no data plan. I download the local area in Google Maps app when I'm on wifi, then I can use it for navigation without a data connection. I personally do not find the cost of a data plan to be worth it. For anything urgent there's SMS or voice calls. Everything else can wait until I can get on wifi, which is really not much of a hurdle, any hotel lobby, coffee shop, etc. will have it.

Most of the rest of the world seems to go the other way: voice calls are rare and reserved for emergencies, SMS has been replaced by WeChat, WhatsApp, LINE and the like, and a data-only phone would be much more useful to most than a voice only device.

Re: What it feels like to be the last gen to remember life before the internet

#54
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Access to information has been a double edged sword as well. I am one of the pre-internet oldies and recall how you had to go to the library, and find the book on the topic you wanted to research. It was a case of hoping it was there and not loaned out already, or too old an edition. Quite often, it would already be loaned out, and you had to wait a week or two and then go back, hoping it had been returned on time. E…

Now everyone see's themselves as an informed authority, after a few minutes googling and reading a wikipedia page. I think today's self-proclaimed informed authority compares pretty well to yesterday's hobbyists, at least. Access to information today is just so much better than it used to be. I've got a passing interest in ancient history, and I own a number of books, but I'm hardly an expert. This morning I watched…

As an aside, if you're interested in history and you don't yet follow Dan Carlin's Hardcore History podcast, you're really missing out. He's great at finding sources, his historiography is sound and just heterodox enough to be appealing, and the man can tell a story like nobody's business - definitely worth the time of anyone with an interest in the subject.

Re: What it feels like to be the last gen to remember life before the internet

#55

One thing that the internet has removed is the endless debates / discussions / disagreements between friends and family about different facts. We just now google the facts and the argument is over as soon as it starts.

I wish. Instead, we spend our time arguing over the qualifications of the differing sources found via Google. "But he has a doctorate too!" Facts are, ironically, getting harder to find and verify these days.

I'd say, we up the difficulty of our discussions. Things we would discuss in the past (e.g. which year was XYZ born) are now settled beyond dispute with a quick google. Now we are stuck discussing questions that cannot be resolved this way.

Re: What it feels like to be the last gen to remember life before the internet

#56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting watching old sitcoms with episodes centered around that very issue. The trying to find a phone, the waiting, the misunderstandings. They all seem...odd now.

Or horror movies -- the killer has cut the phone lines! We can't call the police!

Now it's just, "oh, crap, we don't have any signal out here in pumpkin head holler."

Re: What it feels like to be the last gen to remember life before the internet

#58

I can imagine somebody in the 1400s talking about being the last generation to remember life before books, and what a freeing time it was where people actually had to talk with each other to get information.

That issue already came up in Platon's Phaedrus . The issue that is brought up is that reading about a subject is not the same as immersion brought about by interaction with that subject. It brings about an illusion of learning. Says Platon. Sound familiar, no? http://www.english.illinois.edu/-people-/faculty/debaron/482...

I think Platos/Socrates point holds still. You can read exactly how to build a house having never built one and "know" how to build a house. There is a vast difference between that and actually whats learned while building a house.

I have learned a lot by reading but it always pales to what I learned from doing.

I would trust the person more who built ten houses compared to a person who read every word written about building them but never built one.

Re: What it feels like to be the last gen to remember life before the internet

#59

I can imagine somebody in the 1400s talking about being the last generation to remember life before books, and what a freeing time it was where people actually had to talk with each other to get information.

That issue already came up in Platon's Phaedrus . The issue that is brought up is that reading about a subject is not the same as immersion brought about by interaction with that subject. It brings about an illusion of learning. Says Platon. Sound familiar, no? http://www.english.illinois.edu/-people-/faculty/debaron/482...

[deleted]

Re: What it feels like to be the last gen to remember life before the internet

#60
post #4
post #2

I think the more meaningful difference is life before and after mobile phones. This is one of those technologies that changes everything , and it's why mobile phone penetration far exceeds internet penetration -- although smartphones are rapidly closing the gap. As a trivial example, consider meeting a friend. Before, you used to agree on a time and place, and if they didn't show up you had no way of knowing if they…

Access to information has been a double edged sword as well. I am one of the pre-internet oldies and recall how you had to go to the library, and find the book on the topic you wanted to research. It was a case of hoping it was there and not loaned out already, or too old an edition. Quite often, it would already be loaned out, and you had to wait a week or two and then go back, hoping it had been returned on time. E…

One of the goals of technology is to increase the speed of knowledge transfer. So someone today can get to "expert" level of knowledge in a subject in a fraction of the time that it would have taken three decades ago. That's a good thing.
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