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WhatsApp – Opting out of new terms doesn’t stop Facebook taking information

independent.co.uk

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Re: WhatsApp – Opting out of new terms doesn’t stop Facebook taking information

#71

Post by Freak_NL »

bad_user wrote: post #24
AlexandrB wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that it's a good reminder that all the sentiment in the world is meaningless in the face of changing ownership and/or business realities. See also Instapaper + Pinterest. Edit - Also a reminder to founders: If you want your vision for the company to survive, don't sell it !

Founders that sell are very much aware of this fact. If they're selling it's either because they have no choice, or because they don't believe in said vision. In the end, unless you have a strong contract that protects users with the threat of a fork, like being based on a distributed open protocol, or an open source license, it's all just bullshit and marketing, whereas aligning with your users interests is only tem…

> If they're selling it's either because they have no choice, or because they don't believe in said vision.

Or just because the price is right. Some may believe that they can do something even greater with the money, and some simply realize that a lot of money is the more attractive option for them. The latter may even have faith that the purchaser will keep the vision alive (and most will be disappointed in that respect).

Re: WhatsApp – Opting out of new terms doesn’t stop Facebook taking information

#72

Post by edent »

Freak_NL wrote: post #70
FabHK wrote: post #69

Could everyone just please install Signal and Wire, for open-source, end-to-end encrypted communication?

Does Signal still require your mobile number as mandatory identifier? If privacy is what matters that is a deal breaker. Last I looked it couldn't be used with third party clients either, and any desktop client requires tethering to an Android or IOS smartphone. Wire looks a bit more sensible, but still works exclusively on their servers.

Yes and Yes. Signal also doesn't support encrypted backup, so if you change devices you have to export to plaintext.

Re: WhatsApp – Opting out of new terms doesn’t stop Facebook taking information

#73

Post by themartorana »

FabHK wrote: post #69

Could everyone just please install Signal and Wire, for open-source, end-to-end encrypted communication?

I want to. But it took enough time to get the entire family using WhatsApp. We have so much history in those groups and conversations. I'd very much like to be able to change over (and when ads start creeping in, probably will just bite the bullet) but I really hoped it wouldn't come to this.

Oh well.

Edit: we started using WhatsApp many years ago before the FB purchase, when not only did iMessage suck for groups - oh wait, it still does - and text messaging was expensive, but we needed something stable and cross-platform. WhatsApp delivered on all of that, where iMessage was decidedly iOS only, BBM kept reaching its hand out of the grave but not for long, and Google offerings were impossible for 75 year old relatives to understand. I still like WhatsApp, and the server tech is tops. Too bad it's going this way.

Re: WhatsApp – Opting out of new terms doesn’t stop Facebook taking information

#74

Post by themartorana »

Adverblessly wrote: post #41
espadrine wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the story blew out of proportion. As far as I can tell, WhatsApp never said they would show ads in their app, and they never said they would sell ads. On the contrary, they said that they would make it even harder for them to have any data to work with, as messages will be end-to-end encrypted, and so, undecipherable for them. What they said would happen was telephone and metadata (ie, telephone contacts) cro…

> As far as I can tell, WhatsApp never said they would show ads in their app, and they never said they would sell ads. From their update ( https://www.whatsapp.com/legal/#key-updates ) "New ways to use WhatsApp. We will explore ways for you and businesses to communicate with each other using WhatsApp, such as through order, transaction, and appointment information, delivery and shipping notifications, product and ser…

There is a non-evil way to interpret this. A lot of small international business is conducted over WhatsApp - for instance, many key sellers in the vintage watch market offer WhatsApp as a communications method. But it requires more work than necessary to initiate the conversation. Allowing these sellers to accept incoming messages without having to use it like an individual would make it significantly easier to use (and might help displace email in many business transactions).

A business account for one-to-one communications with a business would be somewhat revolutionary. It's more private (and conversational) than Twitter, less bulky and in-the-way than email, etc.

Re: WhatsApp – Opting out of new terms doesn’t stop Facebook taking information

#76

Post by themartorana »

stephenr wrote: post #57
bikamonki wrote: post #47

It's too late! Have you seen another search engine make a dent in Google's market share? How about another OS challenging Windows on a PC? Another social network? It is rather obvious that: if the main purpose of a business is to grow revenue/market share, if successful, it will eventually grow to close to 100% market share. This situation, commonly known as a monopoly, cannot be reversed by free market competition a…

> It is rather obvious that: if the main purpose of a business is to grow revenue/market share, if successful, it will eventually grow to close to 100% market share. The main purpose of a business is to generate profit, not just revenue. Apple is pretty clear evidence that you don't need a massive market share to be highly profitable. > be a hermit and stop using FB and WhatsApp Is that seriously how you see this? Ho…

Your anecdotal experience does not change the reality of the audience that uses social networking and messaging and the dominant players in those markets. If you decided you wanted to join in your choices would be limited, and these two services dominate their respective markets.

Re: WhatsApp – Opting out of new terms doesn’t stop Facebook taking information

#78

Post by stephenr »

themartorana wrote: post #76
stephenr wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is rather obvious that: if the main purpose of a business is to grow revenue/market share, if successful, it will eventually grow to close to 100% market share. The main purpose of a business is to generate profit, not just revenue. Apple is pretty clear evidence that you don't need a massive market share to be highly profitable. > be a hermit and stop using FB and WhatsApp Is that seriously how you see this? Ho…

Your anecdotal experience does not change the reality of the audience that uses social networking and messaging and the dominant players in those markets. If you decided you wanted to join in your choices would be limited, and these two services dominate their respective markets.

The ability to have friends and a family without the use of Facebook and WhatsApp is "anecdotal evidence"?

Are you fucking kidding me?

Re: WhatsApp – Opting out of new terms doesn’t stop Facebook taking information

#80

Post by ktamiola »

technofiend wrote: post #77

If Facebook wasn't famous for keeping all data they collect I would just swap my phone number for another, like a throw away VoIP line. Retroactive declarations like this should be illegal.

I couldn't agree more!
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