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Why prisons continue to grow, even when crime declines

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Re: Why prisons continue to grow, even when crime declines

#81
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a prison sentence on someone's record will make them more likely to repeat the crime. With the criminal record, minimum wage, or close to, are the only options available. Also, it's human nature to believe you won't get caught. If someone thought they were likely to get caught, they wouldn't do it. Thirdly, what makes you think a 3 year sentence would deter someone from doing it any more than a 30 day sentenc…

> I think a prison sentence on someone's record will make them more likely to repeat the crime. With the criminal record, minimum wage, or close to, are the only options available. What difference then does it make it if is 30 days or 3 years? In other words, how is 30 days an improvement to the problem of deterence (though it is an improvement to the taxpayer)? > Also, it's human nature to believe you won't get caug…

>What difference then does it make it if is 30 days or 3 years?

Because a 3 year gap in your work history is much harder to explain than a 30 day one. Also, when someone runs a background check and sees that a hire was imprisoned for 3 years, they will think the crime was much worse than it was.

>Not necessarily, some people who know that with high probability they will get caught still perform crimes; drug addiction can be quite powerful. At a first glance, I would think that substance abuse treatment/improvement in mental health facilities can help here.

That's an exception that proves the rule. Drug addiction isn't rational thought.

>But in my view, your proposed solution does not do much either to the problem of deterrence.

I think prison terms as deterrence is an illusion. Prison terms as punishment which may have a secondary result of future deterrence is more likely.

>What if the police simply want to install a tracker, in order to investigate the possibility that the theft is being performed by an organized ring which regularly steals bikes, in which case a 3 year sentence could fit the crime? Standard bikes do not come with trackers; this will require active intervention.

You are simply adding complexity to the same immorality.

>I fail to see why there should be a blanket "no to entrapment" in the case of police, but continue to allow it for civilians.

Police can and do arrest you. There are privacy laws in the US against such things, or at least there were.

>I don't have an answer to this. On the other hand, in my view your proposals do not either.

As I stated earlier, I don't believe deterrence is the primary reason for sentencing. It's punishment for a crime.

Re: Why prisons continue to grow, even when crime declines

#82
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you rather they pay you back than cause 30k+ per year to the taxpayer. How about they are in a job program and earn it back for you and garnished wages until it is paid. Also did you have insurance? Did it cover it? Do you need someone locked in a box for years because of it? Is it that level of crime? What if you have a son and he did it, would you want him turned into a lifetime criminal? Our current system i…

No. I would rather they go to jail. I had insurance, it did not cover all of the losses. Assuming this wasn't the first house they robbed, there are many people who suffered losses as well. I do have a son and I would be very unhappy if he started robbing houses. Because of this, I consider it my responsibility to raise him correctly. A concept that seems sadly out of fashion these days.

Why would you rather? Do you know what goes on there?

Re: Why prisons continue to grow, even when crime declines

#83
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bike thieves have no fear in most cities, even when it's a $500+ bike (that is, any bike not purchased at Walmart). That's not easy to replace for most people, even engineers. Locking up bike thieves is plenty productive.

If it was, why are there so many bike thieves?

It's possible if we didn't lock them up there would be more. Probable, IMO.

Re: Why prisons continue to grow, even when crime declines

#84
Back in the day, it was hard to figure out if a person had ever been convicted of a crime -- you'd have to go down to the right courthouse and look through a bunch of dusty paper files. Public records were open, but you'd need to care enough to spend a lot of time if you wanted to snoop on whether a particular individual had a criminal history -- and the right records would have been even harder to find if they'd been convicted in a different county or a different state.

Now that we have computers that can index all those public records, doing background checks on individuals has become easy enough to do it. I think I've seen applications for even fast food jobs which ask if you've ever been convicted of a felony.

The result of this is that, in addition to prison time, our society is de facto penalizing felons for the rest of their lives by making it a lot harder to get many necessities -- such as employment, housing, and education. Not because any law has made it so, but because of new behavior patterns enabled by new technologies. It's not surprising that many one-time offenders turn to a life of crime -- not because they want to, but because they feel that's the only path left open to them.

The timeline in the article seems to fit with this narrative.

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