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Is Microsoft Excel an Adequate Statistics Package?

practicalstats.com

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Re: Is Microsoft Excel an Adequate Statistics Package?

#41

Never, ever use Excel for anything other than prototyping, spot-checking data, or as a makeshift GUI while you develop a proper one. I've seen several financial shops where people were moving millions of dollars around using Excel. IMHO, it's always an indicator of deficient processes and lack of coding skill. Yes, I do know that some clever people use it. They are productive in spite of excel, not because of it. You…

I could've sworn I've seen people who work in the financial and maybe data science industries who've praised Excel to the heavens on HN. Like on the same level as Python, R, etc. I don't work in finance (or data science really) so I can't comment, but it seems merely a tool to me.

There are lots of people who are data analysts who use Excel. Data scientists would more generally use more powerful tools, but Excel is still useful for some things. For example if you have to manually enter in a small amount of data and then perform some simple calculations on this data, Excel is a fine tool. If your data is stored in a machine readable format or you want to do complex analysis with it you generally shouldn't be using Excel.

Re: Is Microsoft Excel an Adequate Statistics Package?

#42
there are a few unique issues i face with excel beyond the stats package.

1. if you shift cells (ctrl c, ctrl v) around, delete or insert rows, you may mess up existing cell references in formulas without realizing it. your vlookups, hlookups will not change your column numbers just because you did. your vba code will not change your A1 cell references. things will blow up here in spectacular fashion.

2. if you have a massive spreadsheet with a lot of lookups, UDFs, non-static cell values (like a Bloomberg real time feed), it's not so clear which UDFs in which cells get calculated in what order. sometimes it results in #value errors, which is a million times more desirable than if there was a iferr(..., 0) or iferr(..., "") and you can't tell if there was a failure.

3. your macros will happily destroy your work if you let it by mistake (writing over formulas in the wrong sheet etc). python will generally not destroy the code it's running.

4. AUTOFORMAT will destroy, without any honor or humanity, any data if it just barely looks like it should be something else. I've had strings get converted into dates, 0s get stripped off (I think geneticists also face that same issue), all kinds of nonsense.

some of the problems I see raised here in HN (such as errors in formulas, sanity checking) are also issues in other tools like scipy, matlab. common errors in these languages are off-by-one matrix references, terminating loops prematurely (esp for numerical solutions), formulas not written correctly, brackets in the wrong place or + instead of -, typos in variable names, nan versus 0 vs na, these are things that affect excel equally.

otherwise, excel is pretty good. it's quick to prototype, it gives passable charts if all you need are passable charts. it's very good at displaying intermediate results. it's pretty ok for WSYWIG presentation, formatting, especially if you have custom reports to produce every week rather than regular ones that tex can solve. the biggest thing about excel is that everyone uses excel and if you try to send over results in a non-excel format they'll (clients or whoever) ask you to send it back in xls.

oh also... mediocre workers can produce excel sheets of passable quality. mediocre works may not even produce a single scipy script of any quality. I have seen some horrific matlab code, written by people with engineering background. i've seen one guy, in his desire to make a programming language look just like excel, write a single line for each of the 50 charts he creates and calls them Chart1, chart2, chart3, rather than use a for loop even though it's just 2 lines. it's totally bizarre.

Re: Is Microsoft Excel an Adequate Statistics Package?

#43

Harper Reed gave a fireside chat at 1871 in Chicago a year back where he said that he's yet to see any meaningful data opportunity that can't be addressed by Excel. Most are just trying to build a solution where there isn't a problem.

He has apparently never worked with a dataset of more than 1,048,576 observations, Excel's row limit [0].

[0] https://support.office.com/en-us/article/Excel-specification...

Re: Is Microsoft Excel an Adequate Statistics Package?

#44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could've sworn I've seen people who work in the financial and maybe data science industries who've praised Excel to the heavens on HN. Like on the same level as Python, R, etc. I don't work in finance (or data science really) so I can't comment, but it seems merely a tool to me.

No way, not data science. How are you going to load in millions, possibly billions of individual numbers? With finance there's a lot of things that seem like good fits, but only if you keep them small. Something like a personal budget is fine, where everything fits on a screen.

I have 2.4 billion data points loaded in Excel at the moment.

Not that it matters. "Data science" is not something that magically kicks in after you go beyond some "big data" threshold.

Excel is heavily used in managerial science type of positions and I can assure you those are rather heavy on the "data science" workflows.

Re: Is Microsoft Excel an Adequate Statistics Package?

#45
post #11
post #10

I disagree. Where I work, we have one person that does all the hedging, price calculations and other financial modeling and he only uses Excel. The only practical downsides to his use of Excel it's that he doesn't have direct database access so we generally need to create the initial reports to give him the data and secondly Excel can only hold a little over 2M rows.

It can hold many more if you use Power Pivot.

Good to know.

Re: Is Microsoft Excel an Adequate Statistics Package?

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could've sworn I've seen people who work in the financial and maybe data science industries who've praised Excel to the heavens on HN. Like on the same level as Python, R, etc. I don't work in finance (or data science really) so I can't comment, but it seems merely a tool to me.

There are lots of people who are data analysts who use Excel. Data scientists would more generally use more powerful tools, but Excel is still useful for some things. For example if you have to manually enter in a small amount of data and then perform some simple calculations on this data, Excel is a fine tool. If your data is stored in a machine readable format or you want to do complex analysis with it you generall…

+1 for manual entry; or if you need to fix some cells in the data.

Re: Is Microsoft Excel an Adequate Statistics Package?

#47
A point I have not seen mentioned is that Excel encourages bad practices for data visualization. No other statistics or data analysis software I am aware of gives you the option of 3D-ifying a 2D plot. This adds negative value to the plot for anyone who is actually interested in data over eye candy. Simple example is a pie chart. Give it depth and it becomes much more difficult to reason about, and one's reasoning could easily change if the chart was rotated.

Re: Is Microsoft Excel an Adequate Statistics Package?

#48

Never, ever use Excel for anything other than prototyping, spot-checking data, or as a makeshift GUI while you develop a proper one. I've seen several financial shops where people were moving millions of dollars around using Excel. IMHO, it's always an indicator of deficient processes and lack of coding skill. Yes, I do know that some clever people use it. They are productive in spite of excel, not because of it. You…

> Yes, I do know that some clever people use it. They are productive in spite of excel, not because of it.

Would they be more productive if you took Excel from them?

> I remember a billion dollar merger where the analyst in charge of the "modelling" showed me how they reached the line limit. It's as if making things complicated justified their salaries, so maybe that's why excel is so popular.

How should the analyst write his model in a simple way? As a Java (or Haskell, or whatever firs your ideal of simplicity) program? Or maybe he could simplify the model until he can write it down in a piece of paper.

Re: Is Microsoft Excel an Adequate Statistics Package?

#50
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No way, not data science. How are you going to load in millions, possibly billions of individual numbers? With finance there's a lot of things that seem like good fits, but only if you keep them small. Something like a personal budget is fine, where everything fits on a screen.

I have 2.4 billion data points loaded in Excel at the moment. Not that it matters. "Data science" is not something that magically kicks in after you go beyond some "big data" threshold. Excel is heavily used in managerial science type of positions and I can assure you those are rather heavy on the "data science" workflows.

The maximum number of rows in the most recent version is 1,048,576 [0]. I'm deducing then that your data is in wide format. What would happen if you wanted it in long format? It seems you would just be out of luck with Excel, which is not a problem in any other major statistics software.

[0] https://support.office.com/en-us/article/Excel-specification...

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