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4WD vs. AWD. What's the Difference?

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Re: 4WD vs. AWD. What's the Difference?

#11
post #2

Great! Finally somebody explained this to me, I thought it was just a marketing term related to different patents of similar ideas. I was puzzled by this as I was stopped by a ranger coming out of Waipio Valley on Hawai'i, where there was a sign "4WD only" and my rental car had AWD. I thought they were the same, just different names, so I argued with the ranger that I do in fact have 4WD, which is in my case just cal…

AWD is meant for adverse conditions on a road and will probably help on a unpaved road. Think rain, ice, snow. It will keep you on the road.

4WD is meant for off road conditions. You get more torque so you'll be able to get over rocks and out of ditches. The downside is you shouldn't use it over 10mph or so.

I can't think of any recent car that is 4WD. It doesn't make sense since you'll probably never be "off road". Cars don't have proper ground clearance.

Re: 4WD vs. AWD. What's the Difference?

#12
post #6

>Torque goes to whichever of the four wheels has the least grip. That should be the tire with the most grip. If torque goes to the wheel where the tire on it has the least grip the tire still has no traction torque doesn't make grip appear out of nowhere. In four-wheel or all-wheel drive one wheel where a tire has no grip the other three wheel with tire that have grip move the vehicle isn't that the entire point of 4…

>To counteract this, the better AWD cars are fitted with a center differential that contains a clutch or viscous drive unit. This splits torque front-to-rear, directing it away from the spinning wheel.

The differential contains a nifty little clutch. When the vehicle detects no traction, it engages and sends the torque to the correct location. Otherwise you'd end up in a situation similar to engaged cruise control with no traction. Limited slip differentials and locked differentials cause much confusion.

Re: 4WD vs. AWD. What's the Difference?

#13
post #2

Great! Finally somebody explained this to me, I thought it was just a marketing term related to different patents of similar ideas. I was puzzled by this as I was stopped by a ranger coming out of Waipio Valley on Hawai'i, where there was a sign "4WD only" and my rental car had AWD. I thought they were the same, just different names, so I argued with the ranger that I do in fact have 4WD, which is in my case just cal…

Generally a sign saying you need 4wd in the US really means you need a lot of ground clearance. Your car probably would have high-centered, that is stuck resting on the middle of the car with the tires in the air. The annoyed ranger was probably just tired of pulling stuck tourists out.

The Waipio Valley road, as I understand it, is mostly paved but extremely steep and narrow/twisty. So the 4x4 requirement is probably more about being able to control speed without burning up brakes and dealing with often wet conditions.

However, in the general case throughout most of the US West, "4WD roads" do indeed tend to be as much about having high clearance as about having 4WD per se. It's also just a way of saying that, if you just have a random rental car and aren't used to driving very rough and often narrow/exposed roads, this is probably not a good idea.

Re: 4WD vs. AWD. What's the Difference?

#15
post #2

Great! Finally somebody explained this to me, I thought it was just a marketing term related to different patents of similar ideas. I was puzzled by this as I was stopped by a ranger coming out of Waipio Valley on Hawai'i, where there was a sign "4WD only" and my rental car had AWD. I thought they were the same, just different names, so I argued with the ranger that I do in fact have 4WD, which is in my case just cal…

Generally a sign saying you need 4wd in the US really means you need a lot of ground clearance. Your car probably would have high-centered, that is stuck resting on the middle of the car with the tires in the air. The annoyed ranger was probably just tired of pulling stuck tourists out.

Normally I would 2nd this, but it does not apply on this particular 4x4 road. It really sucks when opposing traffic appears as it's barely wide enough for 1 vehicle in most parts:

The road gains 800 vertical feet (243.84 m) in 0.6 miles (0.9 km) at a 25% average grade, with steeper grades in sections. This is a paved public road but it is open only to 4 wheel drive vehicles. It is the steepest road of its length in the United States.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waipio_Valley

Re: 4WD vs. AWD. What's the Difference?

#17
post #11
post #2

Great! Finally somebody explained this to me, I thought it was just a marketing term related to different patents of similar ideas. I was puzzled by this as I was stopped by a ranger coming out of Waipio Valley on Hawai'i, where there was a sign "4WD only" and my rental car had AWD. I thought they were the same, just different names, so I argued with the ranger that I do in fact have 4WD, which is in my case just cal…

AWD is meant for adverse conditions on a road and will probably help on a unpaved road. Think rain, ice, snow. It will keep you on the road. 4WD is meant for off road conditions. You get more torque so you'll be able to get over rocks and out of ditches. The downside is you shouldn't use it over 10mph or so. I can't think of any recent car that is 4WD. It doesn't make sense since you'll probably never be "off road".…

> The downside is you shouldn't use it over 10mph or so.

That's not strictly true, and varies between implementations/transfer case designs. In Jeep Wranglers, for example, which have both high and low gearing options in 4WD, the owner's manual will indicate that you can drive at any speed (on loose surfaces such as sand or dirt) in 4HI and 0–25 MPH in 4LO.

Re: 4WD vs. AWD. What's the Difference?

#18
There's a lot of blurring and different labeling of 4WD systems based on the market segment.

Generally it's more helpful to think of 4WD/AWD as fitting into three categories:

1: A system with a transfer case that predominantly drives one axle (almost always the rear, and almost always labeled "4WD"). This is your typical pickup truck 4wd system. When it is engaged, the two axles are locked together and may as well be welded and they'll turn at the same speed.

2: A system with a center differential, in which both axles are driven but may turn at different speeds (Almost always labeled AWD). The differential may allow full or progressive locking and/or torque vectoring. It's rare to find one of these that can fully lock (Subaru WRX STI is the only one I can think of), but it's common to see ones that favor one axle (Audi, BMW, Mercedes) or that can partially lock in response to slipping of one axle (often with the brand name Torsen). These are almost always found on passenger cars, and with few exceptions they're found on cars with longitudinally mounted engines (Mitsubishi EVO being the only transverse layout car with a center diff I can think of), that means they're usually found on higher end cars that are based on front-engine rear-wheel drive models.

3: A system with a power-take-off unit (often brand name Haldex), in which one axle is driven and a clutch pack can partially or fully engage the other axle. (this is often labeled AWD when put on a passenger car, and 4WD when placed on a "truck") The axles can operate at different speeds but can also fully lock in the way a transfer case can. Typically you find these on "AWD" cars that are based on transverse-mounted front-drive models as it's easier to add such a system and get partial engagement of the rear axle, but you'll also find them on performance AWD applications based on rear-drive mid/rear-engine models like Porsche 911s or the Buggatti Veyron. You'll even find it labeled as a 4WD system on "trucks" like Honda Ridgeline or Pilot, or on the new Ford Raptor. These tend to operate more like an automatic transfer case, as the only way to partially engage the secondary axle is to slip the clutch, which you don't want to do 100% of the time. (Ford actually calls this system a transfer case on the Raptor).

You'll see all sorts of spurious claims about systems "sending 100% of the torque to the rear axle" (often just means that the system can fully lock, and 100% torque to the rears means the fronts are in the air). You'll also see things like "rear biased", which sometimes means you have a center differential that overdrives the rear axle by default, which is great, but is often misleadingly applied to PTO/Haldex systems where the rears are also overdriven, but only during the rare times when the system is engaged.

Basically if you're looking for traction in low speed settings where you might not have grip at all on one axle, like offroading or being stuck in the snow, you want as many of your axles locked as possible, which technically you can get with any of these systems, but is usually seen on transfer cases or haldex/PTO systems.

If you're driving quickly on pavement with some traction, you usually want something more like a center differential, preferably one that can partially or entirely lock when you lose some grip at one end.

Re: 4WD vs. AWD. What's the Difference?

#19
One thing that this article only touches on briefly is that more and more AWD systems today are just open differentials plus the TCS instead of using more expensive and heavier limited slip differentials. These modern systems are lighter and cheaper but they have disadvantages; not least of which is that using the brakes to force power to move around wastes torque, and it's only going to be as good as the sensors. If the ABS/TCS system has any issues your AWD goes out too.

I've owned cars with every type of AWD system (Audi, Subaru and currently a Honda) and day to day they all work just as well. Given that, I suppose the manufacturers are ultimately right to go with the cheaper and weight saving system.

Re: 4WD vs. AWD. What's the Difference?

#20
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AWD is meant for adverse conditions on a road and will probably help on a unpaved road. Think rain, ice, snow. It will keep you on the road. 4WD is meant for off road conditions. You get more torque so you'll be able to get over rocks and out of ditches. The downside is you shouldn't use it over 10mph or so. I can't think of any recent car that is 4WD. It doesn't make sense since you'll probably never be "off road".…

> The downside is you shouldn't use it over 10mph or so. That's not strictly true, and varies between implementations/transfer case designs. In Jeep Wranglers, for example, which have both high and low gearing options in 4WD, the owner's manual will indicate that you can drive at any speed (on loose surfaces such as sand or dirt) in 4HI and 0–25 MPH in 4LO.

You right that's why I said 10 or so. Try taking a turn at 25 in 4LO. I'm not sure of the use case for 25 in LO. My Grand Cherokee can operate the same way but I doubt I would go into LO at those speeds. It also will switch to 4HI when it detects wheel slip.

A friend of mine had a old truck that would randomly switch to 4LO on the highway. It's pretty scary driving 60 and having 4LO switch on.

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