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Amazon Vehicles

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Re: Amazon Vehicles

#241

Post by massysett »

driverdan wrote: post #179
ThePhysicist wrote: post #121

What's really interesting about this business model is not the fact that you can buy a car online, it's the price transparency that you create with this: Car dealers often have 10-20 % margin on a car sale, and they make most of their money by providing services to you after you bought the car, so they are usually able to give you some big discounts. Also, as they usually receive a bonus by the car maker for selling…

You should never pay more than invoice for a new car. For that matter you should never buy a new car, it doesn't make economic sense.

"it doesn't make economic sense"

It probably also makes no economic sense to shop at Macys rather than Goodwill or to buy a house rather than a shack. People pay more for things they want.

Re: Amazon Vehicles

#242

Post by massysett »

criddell wrote: post #161
overcast wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously. My last car (BMW) from seven years ago, I did entirely through email. Sent a handful of dealerships their cost sheet with the options I wanted, until I got the price I was looking for. Few months later when it was built and shipped from Germany, I drove my old car to the dealership, and drove off with the new one. Done. As an aside, I just ordered a mattress site unseen from an online only company, and it…

I tried to buy a car via email. I picked out four different cars (a Kia Optima, a Honda Fit, a Toyota Prius, and a Subaru Outback) and emailed all the dealerships for those cars within a three hour drive. None of them would give me anything other than MSRP by email. Most of them called my phone within 15 minutes of me sending the email and all they wanted was for me to come in and talk to them. I eventually went to t…

I bought a Honda Accord and many dealers would not quote by email at all. The remaining dealers quoted a price that did not include a $1000 package of addons that were worth much less (door guards, nitrogen tires, wheel locks, etc.) Every Honda dealer I have seen in this region puts these add-ons on each and every car.

People talk as though the "get quotes by email" thing makes buying a car painless but the simple fact is that it's still a minefield.

My experience with Honda dealers (sales and service) has been so awful that I doubt I will buy another Honda, even though I generally like the car.

Re: Amazon Vehicles

#243

Post by massysett »

smnscu wrote: post #95
andykellr wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did the same thing when we bought my wife's 328 wagon 2 years ago. I emailed about 5 dealerships with a PDF of the options + msrp and they all got back to me in a day or two. I sent a followup email to the others to see if they wanted to beat the best price I received and they all said they couldn't. I also ordered mine because we wanted a specific set of options like adaptive cruise control, upgraded sound system,…

Now BMW offers Apple CarPlay, might be a reason to buy the upgraded screen. Anyway it's ridiculously expensive for what it is, but it gives them space to negotiate and/or make a profit.

CarPlay is not very good. If the car has a good Bluetooth setup I would not pay anything extra for CarPlay:

* the navigation is crippled. You can't even scroll the map. But why could you--you can't even scroll the map on the iPhone.

* it connects only via a cord. Bluetooth connects automatically and wirelessly.

* it is filled with glitches. Sometimes it hangs or pressing buttons does nothing.

* many apps are poorly thought out. For instance the list of stations in Pandora is always in alphabetical order, rather than showing recent stations first, and the only way to change stations is to scroll through this massive list.

I have mostly abandoned CarPlay and use my iPod hooked up by the cord for music, and the phone in a holder for navigation and Bluetooth phone.

Re: Amazon Vehicles

#244

Post by massysett »

illumin8 wrote: post #189
JBReefer wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't go your phone while you drive.

Hear hear! If you feel you need _any_ phone functions while you're driving, stop, just full on stop, don't pass go, don't collect $200... Just stop, because you're doing something stupid!

Answering an incoming Bluetooth call generally takes fewer steps than tuning the radio.

Re: Amazon Vehicles

#245

Post by astrange »

massysett wrote: post #243
smnscu wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now BMW offers Apple CarPlay, might be a reason to buy the upgraded screen. Anyway it's ridiculously expensive for what it is, but it gives them space to negotiate and/or make a profit.

CarPlay is not very good. If the car has a good Bluetooth setup I would not pay anything extra for CarPlay: * the navigation is crippled. You can't even scroll the map. But why could you--you can't even scroll the map on the iPhone. * it connects only via a cord. Bluetooth connects automatically and wirelessly. * it is filled with glitches. Sometimes it hangs or pressing buttons does nothing. * many apps are poorly t…

You can scroll during navigation in iOS 10. Possibly you also can during CarPlay.

Re: Amazon Vehicles

#246

Post by astrange »

kevincox wrote: post #93
hardwaresofton wrote: post #27

Yes please. Anything that will get us closer to direct-to-consumer sales of cars. I'm ready for car dealerships to be a relic of the past.

While a generally agree that dealerships are awful I think the service they provide is the test drive. Car companies don't want to spend money managing "drive centers" all over the world. Since dealerships provide this "service" to them they must in turn ensure that the dealerships can survive by keeping them the most common place to buy a car. If they did all of their sales online the dealerships would go out of bus…

I always thought the dealership system was mandated in the US to prevent companies from selling a car but not providing any required maintenance for it. With dealerships, they're required to give someone else the repair guides.

Obviously there's much better ways this could've been done…

Re: Amazon Vehicles

#247

Post by nradov »

webwanderings wrote: post #32

I was just wondering yesterday, if there is a service out there, which would let me see the type and model of cars which are popular, and most-bought? I assume there must be such a dataset available somewhere through government sources? Or perhaps not. Such a data could be a valuable service based on crowd's wisdom. Amazon here seems to provide public comments, which is generally available via Google.

For the USA you can find that data here. http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/p/sales-stats.html

Re: Amazon Vehicles

#248

Post by criddell »

massysett wrote: post #242
criddell wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tried to buy a car via email. I picked out four different cars (a Kia Optima, a Honda Fit, a Toyota Prius, and a Subaru Outback) and emailed all the dealerships for those cars within a three hour drive. None of them would give me anything other than MSRP by email. Most of them called my phone within 15 minutes of me sending the email and all they wanted was for me to come in and talk to them. I eventually went to t…

I bought a Honda Accord and many dealers would not quote by email at all. The remaining dealers quoted a price that did not include a $1000 package of addons that were worth much less (door guards, nitrogen tires, wheel locks, etc.) Every Honda dealer I have seen in this region puts these add-ons on each and every car. People talk as though the "get quotes by email" thing makes buying a car painless but the simple fa…

I noticed that the window tinting on my car isn't factory tint (some bubbles have started). The Toyota dealer orders cars for the lot with no tinting then they add it themselves. I'm guessing this makes them more money.

The Kia dealer I talked didn't have a car with the upholstery I was interested in and I found out later that the quote they gave me included a charge for taking the car to a local guy and getting the seats re-upholstered.

My wife bought an Acura and so far that dealership seems very good. If they keep treating us right, that's where I'll buy my next car.

Re: Amazon Vehicles

#249

Post by massysett »

ojosilva wrote: post #73
vvanders wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, thankfully Tesla is carrying on that torch. Went from Saturn -> Tesla and the new purchase experience was very similar(aside from ordering the Tesla on a website). I think Saturn showed that the model most consumers want is going to have to come from a non-incumbent who doesn't have the baggage of existing dealers.

I went to Saturn back in the day. I also knew someone that worked there. My impression was of a cold environment that did not entice me to compromise $20k on a vehicle. So, although I believe the model is appealing to some (or many), I do like the guiding hand of a salesperson to help me navigate many makes, models and options. It's more of a personal choice, and definitely it's unnecessary for say Teslas. I feel the…

"I do like the guiding hand of a salesperson to help me navigate many makes, models and options."

A good salesman would be good for this. My last salesman did not know how to operate the in-dash entertainment system. Information-wise, I would have been better off ordering my car from a kiosk.

Re: Amazon Vehicles

#250

Post by galdosdi »

driverdan wrote: post #179
ThePhysicist wrote: post #121

What's really interesting about this business model is not the fact that you can buy a car online, it's the price transparency that you create with this: Car dealers often have 10-20 % margin on a car sale, and they make most of their money by providing services to you after you bought the car, so they are usually able to give you some big discounts. Also, as they usually receive a bonus by the car maker for selling…

You should never pay more than invoice for a new car. For that matter you should never buy a new car, it doesn't make economic sense.

I agree. I don't get all these little rules for getting the best deal on a new car. It seems like rearranging deck chairs on the titanic in terms of financial health.

You can get a much better deal by just buying a used car. Try saving 90%, not 20%.

When comparing to the cost of a new vehicle, it's very hard to spend more on an older used car no matter how badly you screw up. Even if you have to (or choose to some degree to proactively) immediately replace just about everything but the engine you're coming out way ahead compared to new cars. In fact, you can probably replace the engine too and still spend less.

I know some people like the idea or feeling of new, but that's all it is: an irrational feeling, not one backed up by data in terms of a new car being more reliable than a well maintained older one (obviously a poorly maintained car will be less reliable regardless). In fact I feel safer in a well maintained car that's been around long enough that any major recalls, etc have already mostly been found and suffered through by the guinea pigs who insist on buying new.

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