Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Health Care Is a Business, Not a Right

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–77 of 77 posts

Re: Health Care Is a Business, Not a Right

#71

Post by RealityVoid »

codeddesign wrote: post #23
codegeek wrote: post #7

"People need a lot of things. You’ll die without food long before you’ll die without health care, and yet few people say we need to “take the profit motive out of farming”." "Why is health care Special" I tell you why healthcare is special. You cannot buy healthcare at the cost of food. I can buy ramen noodles and survive for cheap. Sure it is not the best but I won't frikin die. But If I get cancer and cannot afford…

Try to eat ramen noodles for the rest of your life and see how your health goes. Most health issues today are directly related to diet. However, processed food and snacks are much cheaper (ramen noodles) than healthy alternatives. McDonald's is a lot cheaper than going to the store and cooking a meal. So no, food is not cheaper when you try to compare it against healthcare.

I hear this argument continuously, but it does not convince me. You imply that McDonalds is bad. Why is it so? Mostly because it's very calorie dense, not because it's actually bad for you. In that respect, McD does its job very well, too well even, but it's not the food itself that is bad, its over consumption.

How bad are ramen for you anyway? Consuming it as a large part of your diet, within your caloric intake and getting the rest of your needed vitamins from different sources (fruits, supplements even), would you get sick with time? Why are certain foods labeled as "bad" automatically? t seems this gets repeated Ad nauseam but most always, the accusation is unsubstantiated.

Re: Health Care Is a Business, Not a Right

#72

Post by DanBC »

SilasX wrote: post #67
DanBC wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does she say what the host and opponent claimed NICE do instead of cost benefit?

I couldn't find a mention of it. Here's the part: >>...Britain had achieved cost-effective treatment for everyone, at the cost of some people missing very expensive treatments that might help them. I was rather congratulating myself on this answer, because NICE is beloved of health wonks everywhere; Obamacare’s Independent Payment Advisory Board (IPAB) is an attempt to sort of replicate it. Pointing out something the…

How frustrating.

That person was clearly true. It's a deeply unpopular idea over here though, even though very few meds are recommended against on pure cost grounds.

Re: Health Care Is a Business, Not a Right

#73

Post by SilasX »

DanBC wrote: post #72
SilasX wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I couldn't find a mention of it. Here's the part: >>...Britain had achieved cost-effective treatment for everyone, at the cost of some people missing very expensive treatments that might help them. I was rather congratulating myself on this answer, because NICE is beloved of health wonks everywhere; Obamacare’s Independent Payment Advisory Board (IPAB) is an attempt to sort of replicate it. Pointing out something the…

How frustrating. That person was clearly true. It's a deeply unpopular idea over here though, even though very few meds are recommended against on pure cost grounds.

But that should validate the difficult politics of health care -- even in a country that gets it (mostly) right, it's because everyone has incorrect beliefs about what it actually does and how it actually controls costs.

Re: Health Care Is a Business, Not a Right

#74

Post by jimmywanger »

erelde wrote: post #69
jimmywanger wrote: post #30

This is absolutely spot on. Health care is not a right, neither is education, food, or access to the internet. These are all things that people at some point or another have claimed as "inalienable human rights". There is always a cost benefit analysis here. Should we perform this extremely expensive treatment to give somebody a few days in agonizing pain, or maybe save a few dozen other people with a simple, straigh…

> Should we perform this extremely expensive treatment to give somebody a few days in agonizing pain, or maybe save a few dozen other people with a simple, straightforward procedure? Does the current system in the US evaluate that? We could also go back to feudalism, people accross history and the world have gained rights against the wealthy minority, and I think healthcare for everyone should be something US citizen…

Did you read the article at all? Evaluating the cost/benefit analysis is completely toxic and forbidden completely.

The NHS does that and denies it, and the last election they tried to call Obamacare "death boards".

We are in fuedalism right now, we just don't recognize our lords as explicitly.

And you can't "fight for healthcare for everybody". Healthcare is a scarce resource, and not everybody gets it. It's the nature of scare resources. If you have to provide healthcare to all, something else will get cut. Education? Food subsidies? Housing stipends? You pick your poison and don't think that we can just produce things out of thin air.

And the two marxist societies in the world are suffering. (DPRK and Venezuela) They've only been able to make everyone equally miserable, except for those in the ruling party.

Re: Health Care Is a Business, Not a Right

#75

Post by codeddesign »

codegeek wrote: post #31
codeddesign wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try to eat ramen noodles for the rest of your life and see how your health goes. Most health issues today are directly related to diet. However, processed food and snacks are much cheaper (ramen noodles) than healthy alternatives. McDonald's is a lot cheaper than going to the store and cooking a meal. So no, food is not cheaper when you try to compare it against healthcare.

I used ramen noodle as an example. There are plenty types of food that you can buy for cheap. Are you really telling me that for a family of 4, your grocery bill will be $1500/month ? That is the average cost that I was paying out of pocket for a good plan (with low deductibles etc). And yes, I have kids which makes it absolutely critical to have a really good plan. My grocery bill for 4 of us goes about $500/month a…

I wasn't arguing healthcare, I was arguing your analogy. Food is a right but so is air. However, the quality of it drastically affects your health. 2 major points...cost of healthcare is insane, and paying $500+ on food is a car payment which is a lot for families which children in central and southern U.S. Often highly processed food is pretty cheap in which you are able to buy higher quantities of but is not so good for your long term health.

Re: Health Care Is a Business, Not a Right

#76

Post by tfnw »

RealityVoid wrote: post #71
codeddesign wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try to eat ramen noodles for the rest of your life and see how your health goes. Most health issues today are directly related to diet. However, processed food and snacks are much cheaper (ramen noodles) than healthy alternatives. McDonald's is a lot cheaper than going to the store and cooking a meal. So no, food is not cheaper when you try to compare it against healthcare.

I hear this argument continuously, but it does not convince me. You imply that McDonalds is bad. Why is it so? Mostly because it's very calorie dense, not because it's actually bad for you. In that respect, McD does its job very well, too well even, but it's not the food itself that is bad, its over consumption. How bad are ramen for you anyway? Consuming it as a large part of your diet, within your caloric intake an…

It is encouraging for me to see my opinion on this reflected in your comment, I find it very worrying that it is so common for people to seemingly blindly accept the popular narrative on this issue. (Well, I guess I find it worrying if people seem to blindly accept the popular narrative for any issue, really).

Re: Health Care Is a Business, Not a Right

#77

Post by codeddesign »

RealityVoid wrote: post #71
codeddesign wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try to eat ramen noodles for the rest of your life and see how your health goes. Most health issues today are directly related to diet. However, processed food and snacks are much cheaper (ramen noodles) than healthy alternatives. McDonald's is a lot cheaper than going to the store and cooking a meal. So no, food is not cheaper when you try to compare it against healthcare.

I hear this argument continuously, but it does not convince me. You imply that McDonalds is bad. Why is it so? Mostly because it's very calorie dense, not because it's actually bad for you. In that respect, McD does its job very well, too well even, but it's not the food itself that is bad, its over consumption. How bad are ramen for you anyway? Consuming it as a large part of your diet, within your caloric intake an…

Are you trying the imply that eating a double bacon cheeseburger with a coke and fries is healthy for you?? I do agree with you on consumption, but when was the last time you heard of someone having health issues because they over ate on fresh fruits and vegetables? In my comment I was more referring to farm fresh compared to the highly processed food that is much cheaper.
Post reply on HN