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University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigger Warnings’

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Re: University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigger Warnings’

#141

Post by jbigelow76 »

Chathamization wrote: post #130
judah wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Universities ought to return to what they once were: free and open exchange of ideas. Viewed in this light, the University of Chicago's rejection of political correctness is actually a softening of extremism: allowing for, rather than actively silencing, diverse political discourse. This is in stark contrast to neighbor Chicago school DePaul, who last month blocked[0] Jewish conservative minority voice Ben Shapiro fr…

> Universities ought to return to what they once were: free and open exchange of ideas. The problem with this is that's not why most people go to universities. The top reason is probably credentials for employment (most people stop taking classes after getting a degree), and below that is probably education for employment (if I see someone with a degree taking a class just for the education, it's usually related to s…

    >The problem with this is that's not why most people go to universities. The top reason is probably credentials for employment
Go to university and you should expect "free and open exchange of ideas", go to a trade school if all you want is "credentials for employment".

Re: University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigger Warnings’

#142

Post by pklausler »

ebola1717 wrote: post #139
pklausler wrote: post #68

Bad move, Chicago. If the kids don't learn how to use trigger warnings and safe spaces at school, how will they know how to use all of the trigger warnings and safe spaces in the real modern world after they graduate?

Speech in real life is way more limited than in college. You can say things you'd be fired for, be a total asshole, say racist things, and get a slap on the wrist in college.

There is a world outside the workplace.

Re: University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigger Warnings’

#143

Post by talmand »

nomat wrote: post #116
Erik816 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is the "student vs consumer" argument. If you are a consumer, then you complain about how your money is not being spent to match your existing preferences. If you are student, you are there to be exposed to things you disagree with and don't support, so you don't complain when the University provides and pays for speakers (or professors) you disagree with.

That is a good point, and I agree with you when the case is that the idea or person you disagree with is a necessary part of the curriculum/class. But in the case where it's an extracurricular activity or student organization that isn't a core part of the degree, then why doesn't a student have the right to complain? edit: I believe that students are also consumers. The two are not mutually exclusive. Tuition is pret…

Why should student A who sees the negative of a speaker have the power of veto over student B who sees the positive of the speaker? What happens when student B complains about a speaker that student A wants to hear? Do we just ban everybody or allow a diversity of opinions?

For that matter, if the speaker is invited by a student organization that the complaining student is not a member of, why should that student complain? Just don't go.

Re: University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigger Warnings’

#144

Post by rdtsc »

I remember someone a while back posted a lecture page from CMU. They support Trigger Warnings. And a few papers there had them.

It was a database course, I can only imagine "master/slave" terminology.

So I was wondering, how are Trigger Warning supposed to work? Can the student refuse to do the required reading and claim full credit because might be triggered, seems like it would open loophole.

That was just CS stuff. What about history, that's full of prejudiced offensive language and terminology. Can students avoid doing required work by claiming they'd be triggered?

Is there anyone undertaking an effort to sanitize records to "fix" the triggers. For example take some classic distributed system papers and search and replace master/slave with leader/follower?

I can understand wanting to have safe spaces. But I don't quite follow how trigger warnings resolve themselves in the context of classroom learning. Any recent grads have any experience with how this is handled?

EDIT: I think it was a link like this (even perhaps this exact course, just for last year).

http://15721.courses.cs.cmu.edu/spring2016/schedule.html

---

Concurrency Control III — Optimistic /!\

...

/!\ : Trigger warning: The material presented in this lecture uses explicit language and discusses certain situations in database management systems that may be triggering to some students.

---

Are students allowed to pass without learning and being tested on Optimistic Concurrency Control in databases? If not, what is the purpose of the warning, just to have them mentally prepare for it?

Re: University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigger Warnings’

#146

Post by bbctol »

pklausler wrote: post #68

Bad move, Chicago. If the kids don't learn how to use trigger warnings and safe spaces at school, how will they know how to use all of the trigger warnings and safe spaces in the real modern world after they graduate?

Yeah, schools try to emulate the real world as much as possible. That's why they also don't have professors, classes, or dormitories.

Re: University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigger Warnings’

#147

Post by minikites »

cmdrfred wrote: post #60

What I find rather interesting, is that throughout human history we never had a need for trigger warnings until now. We've had slavery, 2 world wars, famine, countless horrors inflicted on a countless number of people. Nobody asks for it. Then I look to the third world there we have things like female genital mutilation, are the women who had that horror put upon them concerned with trigger warnings? Nope. Not as far…

To put your argument another way, throughout human history we've had famine, plagues, and high infant mortality rates. Since the modern developed world has easy access to food, sanitation, and medical treatment, we will clearly be weaker in the long run.

Re: University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigger Warnings’

#148

Post by joesmo »

cmdrfred wrote: post #60

What I find rather interesting, is that throughout human history we never had a need for trigger warnings until now. We've had slavery, 2 world wars, famine, countless horrors inflicted on a countless number of people. Nobody asks for it. Then I look to the third world there we have things like female genital mutilation, are the women who had that horror put upon them concerned with trigger warnings? Nope. Not as far…

Gotta find something to complain about when life is going so well or when life is not going so well but you have no control over the things that make it fail. People today, at least in the US, are incredibly scared of all manner of fiction. Whether you think your supermarket will be the next ISIS target or you're actively waiting for the end of the world which you're sure will come in your lifetime, you're scared. And scared people do stupid shit and attack others. On the other hand, not everyone has a good life here. Poverty is rampant in America. But there is little individuals can do to fix their condition. So they turn against other. Make no mistake about it: demanding trigger warnings and safe spaces is an attack on others. We used to call people that demanded such things "assholes" and I see no reason to stop.

As far as other parts of the world go, I never heard of anyone in Europe talking about safe spaces or trigger warnings and I'm pretty sure they don't waste breath on such stupidities over there so it doesn't seem to be an issue outside the US, though I could be wrong.

Re: University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigger Warnings’

#149

Post by wyager »

jordigh wrote: post #27

One thing that bugs me is that people think trigger warnings are to make sure people don't get offended. Being triggered is not the same thing as being offended. Being triggered is about having a fucking panic attack, hyperventilating, feeling like you're having a heart attack and you're about to die . Panic/anxiety attacks are not a silly little thing. They were portrayed somewhat accurately in Netflix's recent Jess…

Even if a meaningful percentage of the people clamoring for trigger warnings had a legitimate psychological condition like PTSD (which, based on my interactions with such people at a large university, they don't), making everyone else accommodate their emotional state is not a rational, mature approach. If you have a problem, seek to treat it; don't try to foist it on everyone else.

Re: University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigger Warnings’

#150

Post by mrtron »

jordigh wrote: post #27

One thing that bugs me is that people think trigger warnings are to make sure people don't get offended. Being triggered is not the same thing as being offended. Being triggered is about having a fucking panic attack, hyperventilating, feeling like you're having a heart attack and you're about to die . Panic/anxiety attacks are not a silly little thing. They were portrayed somewhat accurately in Netflix's recent Jess…

With the carnival ride analogy, you know a carnival ride has a physical strain that could cause problems to certain types of people, like pregnant women.

How are you supposed to know the set of topics that could potentially trigger a large classroom of people? And how are you supposed to know what topics will be brought up in discussions or questions asked in a classroom?

If someone is triggered by the topic of war or fire, it could come up as an analogy in any subject. "90s music was like a war on being happy - depressing alternative rock spread like wildfire."

Also, I think the burden of evidence is on requiring trigger warnings for classrooms. Why should they be implemented?

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