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University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigger Warnings’

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Re: University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigger Warnings’

#101

They don't want students to have any spaces where they feel safe/accepted? That's weird.

Using alternative definitions of terminology is disingenuous. A "safe space" is a place where certain speech and actions are prohibited, and people considered likely to participate in them are excluded. This, of course, is true everywhere, but in a "safe space" these restrictions are stronger. The university enforces a certain code of conduct globally, prohibiting clear abuses. When they prohibit safe spaces, they ar…

Universities are places where unpopular points of view must be entertained and debated. Expressing or advocating unpopular or unpleasant points of view is not against university codes of conduct—nor should it be. But must it then also be the case that associations of students cannot limit hostile discussion in smaller settings?

Topics like the Israeli occupation of the West Bank or the efficacy of sexuality conversion therapy are things that can and should be debated in the university as a whole, but is it really the case that an association of Jewish or gay students must entertain hostile discussions of these topics in their private meetings?

Consider the entirely reasonable passage in the UoC Student Manual [0]: The ideas of different members of the University community will frequently conflict, and we do not attempt to shield people from ideas that they may find unwelcome, disagreeable, or even offensive. Nor, as a general rule, does the University intervene to enforce social standards of civility. There are, however, some circumstances in which behavior so violates our community's standards that formal University intervention may be appropriate. The University may restrict expression that violates the law, that falsely defames a specific individual, that constitutes a genuine threat or harassment, that unjustifiably invades substantial privacy or confidentiality interests, or that is otherwise directly incompatible with the functioning of the University.

That clearly says the University will not police the content of debates, without implying that "safe spaces" are prohibited.

[0] http://studentmanual.uchicago.edu/sites/studentmanual.uchica...

Re: University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigger Warnings’

#102
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why didn't he and his fellows advocate for "trigger warnings" then? Perhaps a greater sense of personal responsibility? I'm honestly curious.

What makes you think they didn't? Just politely ask people around you not to make ridiculously loud noises without warning. It probably didn't occur to them to come up with a funny name for it because it's a very natural and sensible thing to do.

Asking is a quite different than what is being demanded by people today. People who advocate for 'trigger warnings' want it enforced by law as far as I understand. My question is still unanswered, what changed?

Re: University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigger Warnings’

#103
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're looking for a depth of equivalence that I wasn't suggesting was there. To further muddy things, you should know that explosions themselves don't produce the responses they do just in veterans. High-bandwidth sounds trigger an autonomic response as soon as they hit the brain stem- long before the cortex has a chance to think "I recognize that as an explosion", the brain stem said "HOLY SHIT SOMETHING IS…

So in what classroom circumstances would a warning be necessary? I'm all for being courteous, I just have serious concerns about giving college students the impression that the world around them needs to adjust to them rather than vice versa.

Examples of some obvious things that really shouldn't be too controversial:

Showing pictures of a massacre

Showing pictures or video from a war

Reading a graphic account of a soldier from war

Showing pictures of mass graves (esp where body parts are identifiable)

Showing pictures or video of a rape (even if a scene from a movie)

Showing pictures of the evidence from a rape

Reading a graphic account of a rape victim

Re: University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigger Warnings’

#105
post #73
post #22

This is tough . With the aspirations of "civility and mutual respect" along with "rigorous debate, discussion, and even disagreement", I would hope any truly egregious edge cases disappear. In the middle, I think people have the right to remove themselves from discussions—civil or otherwise—that they don't want to listen to or engage. But that right doesn't limit others' ability to have those selfsame discussions in…

> "A trigger warning is advance notice about subject material that may be difficult for certain students to read, hear or see." But that's not what trigger warnings are for... it's not just about mild discomfort. They're to prevent panic attacks . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trauma_trigger Whether trigger warnings are effective or not is a different matter, but of course if you portray them as being about being off…

[deleted]

Re: University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigger Warnings’

#106
post #40
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Mention of rape" and "discussion of rape in enough detail to cause discomfort" are not the same thing.

I'm sure we can find someone who is uncomfortable at the mere mention of the word. Not that we should necessarily accommodate such extremes, but how do you decide where to draw the line?

You work together to find a reasonable balance between accommodating the most common and severe trauma triggers without shutting down general discussion.

For example, there are people who were raped by a man with a deep voice and are triggered by men with deep voices. That's a really shitty situation to be in, but it's unreasonably onerous to expect deep-voiced men to warn everyone in the vicinity (perhaps with a sign) before speaking, especially since there are very few people with that particular trigger. Asking people to give a warning before they intend to discuss rape in detail is not onerous, and it helps a rather larger number of people.

Edit: I'd really like to know why this is getting downvoted.

Re: University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigger Warnings’

#107
post #11
post #2

What I don't get about this is why trigger warnings and safe spaces always seem to get lumped together in discussions like this. It's really hard to actually create a safe space. You have to actively intervene to prevent (or provide redress for) the "wrong" kinds of speech. I can totally see why a university would not think safe spaces were worth it, or even consistent with their goals. But trigger warnings are a rea…

I'd argue that it's equally as impossible to set up trigger warning policies. While some trigger warning like the ones you mentioned are valid, the term has been perverted to include all sorts of things[0] where you could get in trouble for talking in public about insects or needles. It's an impossible task to list out and educate people on everything that might possible trouble or offend. Once you open that door, th…

"[0] http://privilege101.tumblr.com/triggers.html"

from the list:

- Pregnancy/childbirth

- Death or dying

- Slimy things

It's very difficult not to dismiss this as infantile.

Re: University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigger Warnings’

#108
post #50
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mentioning the word rape is not a discussion of rape.

The use-mention distinction is a sensitive subject for me, so I would appreciate getting a warning next time you allude to it. Thanks!

You're making fun of the sensitivities and stress experienced by some people after they are raped. Nice one.

Re: University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigger Warnings’

#109
post #2

What I don't get about this is why trigger warnings and safe spaces always seem to get lumped together in discussions like this. It's really hard to actually create a safe space. You have to actively intervene to prevent (or provide redress for) the "wrong" kinds of speech. I can totally see why a university would not think safe spaces were worth it, or even consistent with their goals. But trigger warnings are a rea…

> But trigger warnings are a really simple common courtesy

Indeed. I see "Trigger warning" and I know I don't want to read what an author has to say.

Re: University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigger Warnings’

#110
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're looking for a depth of equivalence that I wasn't suggesting was there. To further muddy things, you should know that explosions themselves don't produce the responses they do just in veterans. High-bandwidth sounds trigger an autonomic response as soon as they hit the brain stem- long before the cortex has a chance to think "I recognize that as an explosion", the brain stem said "HOLY SHIT SOMETHING IS…

So in what classroom circumstances would a warning be necessary? I'm all for being courteous, I just have serious concerns about giving college students the impression that the world around them needs to adjust to them rather than vice versa.

I don't think TWs should be required. But explicit descriptions or depictions of assault are pretty low-hanging fruit here.

By not making a policy, but encouraging a culture of learning about common triggers, we also encourage a more adaptive approach. If someone is distressed and they let you know, you can decide whether it makes sense to warn about that content in the future.

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