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University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigger Warnings’

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Re: University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigger Warnings’

#91
post #40
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Mention of rape" and "discussion of rape in enough detail to cause discomfort" are not the same thing.

I'm sure we can find someone who is uncomfortable at the mere mention of the word. Not that we should necessarily accommodate such extremes, but how do you decide where to draw the line?

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Re: University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigger Warnings’

#93
post #67
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. People arguing for "safe spaces" are generally arguing that the entire university should be a "safe space". So it's really about control over shared space and the right to police offensive dialog.

Never heard of that concept of "safe space" before. Do you have any examples of it?

"It’s unacceptable when the Master of your college is dismissive of your experiences. The Silliman Master’s role is not only to provide intellectual stimulation, but also to make Silliman a safe space that all students can come home to. His responsibility is to make it a place where your experiences are a valid concern to the administration and where you can feel free to talk with them about your pain without worrying that the conversation will turn into an argument every single time. We are supposed to feel encouraged to go to our Master and Associate Master with our concerns and feel that our opinions will be respected and heard.

But, in his ten weeks as a leader of the college, Master Christakis has not fostered this sense of community. He seems to lack the ability, quite frankly, to put aside his opinions long enough to listen to the very real hurt that the community feels. He doesn’t get it. And I don’t want to debate. I want to talk about my pain (emphasis added)." [0]

From one of the Yale protestors demanding the termination of a professor who wrote an email questioning the need to regulate student Halloween costumes, and her husband for standing by her. FWIW, the student activists at UChicago plastered their Facebook walls with expressions of solidarity with these protestors.

[0] https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/11/09/...

Re: University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigger Warnings’

#94
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Mention of rape" and "discussion of rape in enough detail to cause discomfort" are not the same thing.

That might be true, but there are a variety of cases where we've decided to stop using a word in general in order to avoid causing undue distress; "slave" (i/r/t "master" and "slave") in a computing context is now generally always phrased in another way, for example.

That's the kind of absurd oversensitivity that opponents of trigger warnings are against.

Re: University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigger Warnings’

#95
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When my grandfather got back from WWII, he went to work at a printing press. One day a neon sign fell and shattered just across the room from him. When he became aware of himself again, he had ripped up all of his fingernails trying to dig a foxhole in the concrete floor with his bare hands. Recovery is always the goal, not keeping someone continually vulnerable. And over time, in more controlled circumstances, expos…

Why didn't he and his fellows advocate for "trigger warnings" then? Perhaps a greater sense of personal responsibility? I'm honestly curious.

What makes you think they didn't? Just politely ask people around you not to make ridiculously loud noises without warning. It probably didn't occur to them to come up with a funny name for it because it's a very natural and sensible thing to do.

Re: University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigger Warnings’

#96
post #83
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Universities ought to return to what they once were: free and open exchange of ideas. Viewed in this light, the University of Chicago's rejection of political correctness is actually a softening of extremism: allowing for, rather than actively silencing, diverse political discourse. This is in stark contrast to neighbor Chicago school DePaul, who last month blocked[0] Jewish conservative minority voice Ben Shapiro fr…

I assume people like Shapiro collect fees from the school for speaking, so would it be correct to frame the issue as students not wanting their money to go into the pockets of a person that they don't support?

Which is the "student vs consumer" argument. If you are a consumer, then you complain about how your money is not being spent to match your existing preferences. If you are student, you are there to be exposed to things you disagree with and don't support, so you don't complain when the University provides and pays for speakers (or professors) you disagree with.

Re: University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigger Warnings’

#97
post #18
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article links to another one discussing the difficulty of teaching law in this environment, because many aspects of law are potentially "triggering": http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/trouble-teaching-rap...

I don't really see the relevance of the article. It complains a lot about students being oversensitive to bad things, but it has barely anything to do with actual trigger warnings. Trigger warnings aren't about bending to the every whim of everyone you encounter. They're about labeling material ahead of time so that people can make a more informed decision about when and how they expose themselves to it. Nothing abou…

> informed decision about when and how they expose themselves to it.

Being able to face uncomfortable ideas and events is a hallmark of an educated, resilient mind. People who never practice that resilience can hardly be considered having achieved the status that one would normally associate with a liberal university level education.

Re: University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigger Warnings’

#98
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well the US has had obscenity laws in place until recently. It's just that the people who decided what was "upsetting" were politicians rather than students and had the power to get rid of it completely.

In practice those laws rarely if ever were applied to college classroom or similar event. Speech within a private facility by individuals has always been protected.

Well yeah, but if a book can never get published because of obscenity laws, it will never be discussed in a classroom. The law doesn't even need to be actually enforced very often to have an effect. The fact that authors know that their books might be labeled as obscene will make them censor themselves.

Re: University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigger Warnings’

#99
post #3

I think this should be a requirement for any university that wants accreditation and certainly all state-run institutions. This is a bold statement not for the Uni. of Chicago, but for every other university that does not have a similar policy in place. Sorry, but you cannot get a proper education with trigger warnings and safe spaces. Therefore, those institutions that do not have the courage to stand up for educati…

So student associations shouldn't be allowed to not allow certain people into their meetings if they're found to be abusive? Because that's the point of a safe space if you didn't know. It's not unlike support groups who can and will eject people who are known to be abusive or otherwise disclose information outside the support group without permission of all members. So, to say that safe spaces shouldn't be allowed i…

Never said anything like that, but to your point, who decides what's abusive? Because clearly, letting students decide that has prevented actual education from taking place, education that people are paying for and expecting to get. If one can't teach classic English literature or American law because the students demand trigger warnings and safe spaces, they're the problem in this equation, not the professor, and the students (and teachers) that want to learn (and teach) shouldn't be punished for it.

Let me reiterate that. Because trigger warnings and safe spaces are just code names for censorship, they cannot exist at the same time as a proper education, and the students that want to learn should not be punished by the stupidity of the students who only demand censorship (safe spaces and trigger warnings). That's Ethics 101. Which one would probably be aware of if one's university didn't have trigger warnings and safe spaces instead of education. But if one prefers to get ripped off and not learn, there are now plenty of universities in America that will gladly take one's money and return one some trigger warnings, safe spaces, and little else.

Re: University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigger Warnings’

#100
post #73
post #22

This is tough . With the aspirations of "civility and mutual respect" along with "rigorous debate, discussion, and even disagreement", I would hope any truly egregious edge cases disappear. In the middle, I think people have the right to remove themselves from discussions—civil or otherwise—that they don't want to listen to or engage. But that right doesn't limit others' ability to have those selfsame discussions in…

> "A trigger warning is advance notice about subject material that may be difficult for certain students to read, hear or see." But that's not what trigger warnings are for... it's not just about mild discomfort. They're to prevent panic attacks . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trauma_trigger Whether trigger warnings are effective or not is a different matter, but of course if you portray them as being about being off…

If you have a phobia, one natural reaction is to anticipate in which situations the "trigger" will occur and to actively avoid such situations. It's well-known in psychology however that this behavior actually reinforces the phobia and prevents it from healing.

Trigger warnings seem like the same strategy only elevated on an institutional level. So while they do prevent panic attacks, they would actually do the traumatized more harm than good.

The other thing is that people can develop phobias against almost everything. So no matter how many trigger warnings the university put up, there could always be one group which finds their particular triggers not marked up well enough.

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